Warren Spector says games are "fetishising violence&quo

[Joshawott]

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Epic Mickey creator Warren Spector has called for an end to videogames that 'are fetishising violence.'

Spector, who is currently working on Epic Mickey: The Power Of Two for Wii, accussed many violent games at E3 2012 of being in bad taste.

"This is the year where there were two things that stood out for me," Spector told Games Industry International "One was: The ultraviolence has to stop We have to stop loving it."

He added: "I just don't believe in the effects argument at all, but I do believe that we are fetishising violence, and now in some cases actually combining it with an adolescent approach to sexuality. I just think it's in bad taste. Ultimately I think it will cause us trouble.

"We've gone too far. The slow-motion blood spurts, the impalement by deadly assassins, the knives, shoulders, elbows to the throat."

Although Spector is now working on an adventure starring a cartoon mouse, he hasn't forgotten that his previous games have featured violence but he believed that these moments in Deux Ex were designed for a reason. Something Spector says is lacking in modern games.

"You know, Deus Ex had its moments of violence, but they were designed - whether they succeeded or not I can't say - but they were designed to make you uncomfortable, and I don't see that happening now. I think we're just appealing to an adolescent mindset and calling it mature."

Of course Wii U has embraced some violent videogames with ZombiU and Ninja Gaiden Razor's Edge coming to the console.

What do you think? Do you agree with him, or disagree?

Personally, I agree. I'm no prude to violence - I absolutely love A Clockwork Orange, Fight Club and Elfen Lied. However, I do believe that any sort of ultra-violence needs to be justified by the tone of the work it is in, the story and the situation.

During E3, I remember how frankly, disgusted I was by ZombiU. I downloaded the press pack for a gaming website I report on and found the images really disturbing (no wonder Nintendo put very strict warnings on what sites can and can't post them) - seeing a guy cleave off a zombie's head, with the head still in mid-air and with blood gushing out...it made me want to be sick. Also, when I was watching the Assassin's Creed III trailer and I see soldiers just randomly having their chests hit with axes I was thinking "Surely there's a more time efficient, easier and cleaner way to dispose of them?".

Also, this quote is so true:

I think we're just appealing to an adolescent mindset and calling it mature.

 

[ayase]

"You know, Deus Ex had its moments of violence, but they were designed - whether they succeeded or not I can't say - but they were designed to make you uncomfortable, and I don't see that happening now."

Can't say that it did succeed - it was entirely possible in Deus Ex to run around beating children to death with a crowbar and JC Denton just went on his merry way with nary a tear shed for them. Perhaps if he'd thought to include a cut-scene afterwards where JC fell to his knees at the sight of the child's graphically mangled corpse, muttered "Dear God, what have I done" in his monotone voice before sobbing into his hands as the screen faded to black and sirens approached in the distance I could see his point. Perhaps if Anna Navarre had screamed at you in her final moments, eyes filled with hatred, for pissing all over a job that she had devoted her entire life to whilst coughing up blood and trying desperately to hold her intestines in. But no, not once did any of the violent content in Deus Ex make me feel uncomfortable.

I think a man developing a game featuring Disney characters needs to be a bit careful about accusing others of "appealing to an adolescent mindset". There are few people in this world who lack any kind of adolescent or childish impulses and those who have none aren't likely to play computer games at all, sinkholes of time and effort that they are. Guess who plays more games than anyone else? That's right, teenage boys. Of course they're going to appeal to adolescent fantasies - they're being bought primarily by fantasizing adolescents. If Spector thinks developers have some kind of duty to provide teenagers (and even adults) with wholesome entertainment at the expense of what they actually want to see, I think he's been collaborating with Disney for too long.

I like to consider myself a largely functioning adult in that I can, at the very least, go out in public without having to suppress the urge to rape or murder the people I happen across. But to deny that thoughts of inappropriate acts of sex or violence ever cross peoples minds is to deny human nature. Most of us are civilised enough not to act on these fantasies, but they are required to be satisfied by some means. Should we all join a local boxing club and start dogging? Perhaps Mr. Spector thinks that would be more healthy than raunchy or bloody computer games, but I would imagine I'm less likely to get brain damage or STDs living out my fantasies in front of a computer screen. Even if we were to stop with the teenage wank fantasies, what would a truly mature violent or sexy game look like? I can only think of real life, and that's not exactly the most appealing content for an entertainment product. We don't want realism in our entertainment, we want fantasy. If you want realistic sex and violence you can go down the pub and drink too much, grope someone and get punched. If Warren's idea of a mature title is Friday Night in a Provincial English Town: The Game he might succeed in doing one thing though - Making people turn their computers off and go outside.

 

[Sparrowsabre7]

I don't have a problem with violence. There are some which take it too far, but it's all about context. Gears of War has some ludicrous stuff, but it's all in the context of a ludicrous game which doesn't take itself too seriously (some may debate that but still), whereas something like SNiper Elite 2 or whatever, the new one, where it's in a serious setting, yet you can shoot nazi bollocks off in x-ray slow-mo is rather distasteful.

 

[Max Takeshi]

Maybe because I'm older now but violence in games is putting me off. Saw the E3 play of The Last of Us and just felt repelled by it all.

 

[Sparrowsabre7]

Maybe because I'm older now but violence in games is putting me off. Saw the E3 play of The Last of Us and just felt repelled by it all.

Really? Interesting, because I feel like that's one of the few games that is deliberately trying to use violence in a meaningful way and make it about uncomfortable decisions necessary for survival.

 

[Vashdaman]

^
Yeah, it might be deliberate, but it's pretty damn grim nonetheless (especially the last bit of that games demo, with the guy pleading). Personally I'd say the violence in most current gen video games tend to make me much more uncomfortable (regardless of whether that feeling it was deliberately provoked or not) than the original dues ex's violence. It simply comes down to graphical fidelity. Games are a lot less abstract now, when you shoot someone on a PS1 game you'd see this pixelly, blurry, anatomically incorrect person spray a bit of pixilated red mist from a non specific point, and then fade away into nothingness. It wasn't realistic. Now you have highly detailed character models with exceptionally realistic animation and physics, and who usually slump over realistically and stare at you with vacant eye's even after they're dead. It's quite chilling at times. And this line between reality and unreality will only continue to get more blurry with improvements to tech. Is this having a different impact on current youths than our more abstract games had on us?

Warren does have some points, violence is certainly fetishized to a much greater degree these days, that's undeniable. Personally, I don't really have a problem with violent games existing, what I have a problem is a lack of balance. The ratio of brutal murder simulators to all other kinds of experiences in video games is just silly. And then we have developers making statements like "but this game is really mature, see how he snapped that guys neck".

We don't want realism in our entertainment, we want fantasy. If you want realistic sex and violence you can go down the pub and drink too much, grope someone and get punched. If Warren's idea of a mature title is Friday Night in a Provincial English Town: The Game he might succeed in doing one thing though - Making people turn their computers off and go outside.

But what about film? Why can't games offer similarly broad experiences? Personally, I think games should be shorter in length so this would be more possible. More busy people would play games, and we'd get a greater range of quality titles.

 

[ayase]

We don't want realism in our entertainment, we want fantasy. If you want realistic sex and violence you can go down the pub and drink too much, grope someone and get punched. If Warren's idea of a mature title is Friday Night in a Provincial English Town: The Game he might succeed in doing one thing though - Making people turn their computers off and go outside.

But what about film? Why can't games offer similarly broad experiences? Personally, I think games should be shorter in length so this would be more possible. More busy people would play games, and we'd get a greater range of quality titles.

...Personally, I don't really have a problem with violent games existing, what I have a problem is a lack of balance. The ratio of brutal murder simulators to all other kinds of experiences in video games is just silly.

I'm not suggesting games can't offer a wide range of experiences and they already do, probably more so now than at any other time, if people can be bothered to glance past the full frontal assault of publicity which accompanies the big name titles from the big publishers.

Spector's point doesn't seem to be "we should be making more games aimed at mature audiences" however, it seems to be "we should treat sex and violence in a more mature manner in games". So what do we consider more mature depictions of sex and violence? Oddly enough, not realism according to Warren - even though as you rightly point out that has more potential to be disturbing and uncomfortable than anything. Say someone were to create a WWII themed FPS with super real graphics, physics and wounds. In the course of the story you encounter comrades suffering from PTSD, liberate detailed depictions of concentration camps and witness acts of war rape and murder being committed by soldiers on your own side which you can't do a damn thing about. Oh, and after a while birds come down and graphically start pecking out the eyes of the dead. That would be very realistic, mature and uncomfortable. It would also cease to be a fun game you enjoyed spending time playing, instead becoming a harrowing experience you didn't want to have any more. Yeah, a harrowing experience I don't want to have - that's well worth £40 and hours of my time.

My point is that games are all fantastical whether they're dealing with violence and sex or not, because that is what people play games for - to have an experience unlike real life. In Broken Sword does anyone question where George Stobbart gets his money to travel the world investigating the aftermath of a bombing he witnesses? Does anyone question why he doesn't just leave it to the police and go home, but instead feels compelled to commit all kinds of illegal activities in order to investigate? The events don't unfold like they would in real life because that wouldn't be fun, interesting or exciting. The same goes for depicting sex and violence in a realistic manner. And if Spector doesn't want these things depicted in a realistic manner, but does want them depicted in a mature manner, I haven't the faintest idea what the hell he's on about.

 

[Sparrowsabre7]

We don't want realism in our entertainment, we want fantasy. If you want realistic sex and violence you can go down the pub and drink too much, grope someone and get punched. If Warren's idea of a mature title is Friday Night in a Provincial English Town: The Game he might succeed in doing one thing though - Making people turn their computers off and go outside.

But what about film? Why can't games offer similarly broad experiences? Personally, I think games should be shorter in length so this would be more possible. More busy people would play games, and we'd get a greater range of quality titles.

Well that's basically the precise purpose of DLC games like XBLA. People mostly don't want shorter games for full price titles, and rightly so. £40 is a lot of money (though my ideal game length is somewhere in the region of 8-10 hours, long enough for a fun ride, but not so long as to induce tedium or a reluctance to play), but XBLA and PS...whatever titles allow for both shorter, cheaper games, plus a more diverse range of genres. Admittedly there are still a lot of violent games, but there are about as many puzzlers and platformers out there too.

I think also there is a stress-relief angle in violent games. You're not going to destress by getting stumped by a difficult puzzle, or missing a jump in Mario World for the 50th time.

 

[Nemphtis]

Bulletstorm was all about killing people in violent and imaginative ways while making up new swear words. I don't mind ultraviolence, but I feel the market is getting a little bit over-saturated with it. Not enough to start complaining, but enough to start getting worried.