Sympathy for the Western Anime Industry

S

skikes

Stand User
Hmmm im not sure the best way to start this topic other than to come straight out with an example of my frustration:

Funimation afew years back came out with their umpteenth re-release of dragonball z. The remastered version. When released there was a great outcry from fans about their decision to crop the video slightly so as to present it in widescreen(i dunno, i'm not firmilar with the ins and outs of it). The fans were outraged at this. Not only for the cropping but for having to purchase yet another version of dragonball. Yet the japanese(i dont recall which studio) are releasing dragonball kai. Which greatly crops the video far more than than funi's remastered version. Now i understand that this isnt a simple re-release but is indeed to be enjoyed as if a new show entirely... which it isn't, z or no z. And yet i read only praise? Clearly the japanese can do no wrong. Their remasters are always the best. Their dvds are of far superior quality. Their colouring is always the sharpest. Or so i hear.
And who can blame them for continuely re-releasing their most bankable titles when the majority of so called anime fans cannot comprehend spending a penny on dvds when they can download them at home for free.
Anime is not the most profitable of industries to get into and alot of the smaller campanies were started for the sheer love of the industry.

In saying all this i don't mean to praise them, i do feel sometimes a great amount of frustration at some of their more questionable decisions but what i dont understand is the sheer amount of contempt there is for them?

I don't know. Tomorrow i could hear they've butchered one of my favorite shows and my opinion will change but for today does anyone else share my frustration?
 
No because I'm greedy. I want more, better, cheaper anime.

I guess that in a certain way, everyone is a bit like this. Your case in point is a bit different. Kai is a re-editing, remastering, removing most of the crap making DBZ pace to be closer to the manga. they went as far as re-recording all sounds and dubs, to for higher quality.

The funimation set was not a remaster for better quality (at least AFAIK), they simply cropped the video a bit to fit widescreen tv sets.

Teh japanese do get a lot more and better than we do, BUT they pay for it. 2 eps a disc anyone? I promise the quality will be really good...
 
Not really. A business is a business at the end of the day. If it isn't working then it will fail. I obviously would like anime to continue to be released in the UK but I'm not going to feel sorry for companies, their primary goal is to make money after all. They aren't charities.

The problem with the western anime companies is that they're catering to two different markets - the collectors and the casual buyers. The collectors moan when series' come out in crappy packaging, altered or missing extras not caring that it's cheap, and the casual buyers moan whenever anything doesn't meet their (sometimes unrealistic) budget. In Japan, it's almost entirely a collector's market. Anime is on TV all the time so most casual fans just watch it rather than buying. The only way I can see to address this is for single releases to start to cater more to collectors and then cheaper, cut down boxed sets to be released after. That way collectors don't get pissed off and not buy things (I've stopped with most singles because they just don't offer value for money) and casual buyers get a complete release more suited to their budget. Singles are a dead end the way they are now. Collectors don't like how little they offer over the boxed sets which follow, and casual buyers don't buy them anyway - at least not of anything slightly off mainstream.

Beez are now the closest to following the pattern I described above, if the Gurren Lagann and Gundam 00 singles and re-released Bebop box is anything to go by. But where's the Haruhi boxed set? They'd surely make a fortune off that if they released it at a decent price, just like ADV would have done with Evangelion - not capitalising on your most popular licenses by releasing Manga-style sets of them for around £30 doesn't make any sense to me.
 
ayase said:
They aren't charities.
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The same could be said for casual buyers over here- often supporting R2 instead of importing doesn't provide the customers with quite the same product, considering the time they waited and money they spent. 'Jumping ship' is, I assume, a common problem for our local suppliers.

As for singles, isn't the 'singles then thinpak' system being phased out in R1 at present, what with ADV and Funimation opting for half-season sets or immediate boxset releases? Of course, I agree that popular products lacking a casual buyers' thinpak release are missing out on untapped profits.
 
Zin5ki said:
As for singles, isn't the 'singles then thinpak' system being phased out in R1 at present, what with ADV and Funimation opting for half-season sets or immediate boxset releases?
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Seems like it, but they're still screwing customers over. Case in point Welcome to the NHK - Two half season boxes for $60 each followed by one full series box for $70. Amazon's price for the complete series is $52. One of the half season boxes? $55. So yeah, it was really worth buying those half-season sets, wasn't it? It seems as though almost everything western companies do makes customers more and more likely to wait for the final boxed set releases.
 
I must admit i havent bought a single volume in years... I always buy thinpacks. I have little to no interest in the extras as they are almost always completely ****. I've always thought booklets were nice bonuses. I loved the one that came with the evangelion tin.

I'm not against downloading either. The wait is far too long. For example the release of Evangelion 1.01. Its been 2years and still no english release with no uk release in sight. Theres no justification for that wait. The region 1 release is in november which i wont be purchasing because 1.11 will be out spring 2010. So on the flip side of things yes, they do sometimes deserve their lackluster sales.

I wont buy something without knowing i want it first. I've always thought anime studios should stream the first episode of every series.

Ick i feel like ive answered my own question.
 
ayase said:
So yeah, it was really worth buying those half-season sets, wasn't it? It seems as though almost everything western companies do makes customers more and more likely to wait for the final boxed set releases.
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It seems as though Funimation can't go a few months without re-releasing (or just repricing) their collections. It doesn't encourage me to do anything other than wait--and not that long--for the inevitable $50~ Viridian collection.
 
skikes said:
I'm not against downloading either. The wait is far too long. For example the release of Evangelion 1.01. Its been 2 years and still no english release
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Except for the Hong Kong one. ;)

They do really need to get the release dates sorted out though. How can it possibly be in European companies' interests to to wait until after the US release? They must lose a fair few sales to imports, though I seem to remember hearing a couple of times that they're often obliged to wait. I'm not sure if the Japanese license holders or American distributors are to blame for that, but that is one thing which does seem massively unfair on European distributors. If Europe got things first it would barely impact US sales since it's more expensive here, and as such it's unlikely many Americans would import.
 
ayase said:
skikes said:
I'm not against downloading either. The wait is far too long. For example the release of Evangelion 1.01. Its been 2 years and still no english release
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Except for the Hong Kong one. ;)

They do really need to get the release dates sorted out though. How can it possibly be in European companies' interests to to wait until after the US release? They must lose a fair few sales to imports, though I seem to remember hearing a couple of times that they're often obliged to wait. I'm not sure if the Japanese license holders or American distributors are to blame for that, but that is one thing which does seem massively unfair on European distributors. If Europe got things first it would barely impact US sales since it's more expensive here, and as such it's unlikely many Americans would import.
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Not only that but when your downloading a torrent for example and you view how many times its been downloaded. Its shocking really. And i'm sure this wouldnt be the case if the just got it on the market quicker. I really can't see why months after the japanese release is unreasonable? I mean fansubbers get episodes out within days. And the quality of voice acting in dubs... well, i'm sure they arent spending months preparing themselves for the emotional drain they're going to pour into the character ¬_¬
 
The thing about downloading is, it's been going on so long it's almost a separate issue to sales now. People who d/l fansubs and then buy when an English release comes around will continue to do so, and people who just steal will continue to do so. That's not going to change. You can't make people more honest / give them a conscience by releasing things sooner.
 
Releasing things sooner would just mean I'd buy them sooner. In other words, my money reach the companies sooner.

WRT collectors - Tony from MVM mentioned that he sees people buying two sets of the same show, one to open, other *possibly* to collect.

I know I did this before and I even bought the same stuff more than once several times - ie. shinkai movies and paranoia agent, so I could a nice autograph.

He also mentioned that they usually ship around 300 / 400 copies of each show.
 
chaos said:
WRT collectors - Tony from MVM mentioned that he sees people buying two sets of the same show, one to open, other *possibly* to collect.
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Of MVM's releases? Why would anyone bother? They aren't exactly anything special to begin with, they're just going to sit there and become gradually more worthless. Perhaps I should clarify - by collectors I meant people who like special packaging, extra items and possibly bonus discs rather than people buying sealed copies in the (vain) hope that they will increase in value. The only times I can see this being worth doing is with very special, very limited editions such as the Wolf's Rain Book of The Moon.
 
ayase said:
chaos said:
WRT collectors - Tony from MVM mentioned that he sees people buying two sets of the same show, one to open, other *possibly* to collect.
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Of MVM's releases? Why would anyone bother? They aren't exactly anything special to begin with, they're just going to sit there and become gradually more worthless. Perhaps I should clarify - by collectors I meant people who like special packaging, extra items and possibly bonus discs rather than people buying sealed copies in the (vain) hope that they will increase in value. The only times I can see this being worth doing is with very special, very limited editions such as the Wolf's Rain Book of The Moon.
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he never said it was mvm stuff, but yeah, I've got double paranoia agent - because I forgot my copy at home and I wanted it autographed by Momoi-san =)

But still, while the quality of their releases as memorabilia can be questionable, the quality of some of their shows aren't, so yep, I can see some people getting more than one copy of certain things.
 
ayase said:
The thing about downloading is, it's been going on so long it's almost a separate issue to sales now. People who d/l fansubs and then buy when an English release comes around will continue to do so, and people who just steal will continue to do so. That's not going to change. You can't make people more honest / give them a conscience by releasing things sooner.
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I agree with you somewhat. You are correct ofcourse. But on a numer of occasions ive downloaded something with the intention of purchasing the dvds once they were finally released but by the time they are ive lost all interest and moved on to the next thing. So had it been released sooner i almost surely would have bought it. And i'm sure im not the only one with whom this is the case.
 
chaos said:
But still, while the quality of their releases as memorabilia can be questionable, the quality of some of their shows aren't, so yep, I can see some people getting more than one copy of certain things.
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I still don't know what reason anyone would have for buying two copies of the same ordinary DVD... :?

I don't mean to badmouth MVM, they have released some of my favourite shows and have consistently good picture / sub quality - but since Beez have wised up they are the biggest offenders in offering little "singles vs boxed sets" value for money. Their singles are just not worth buying at all.
 
ayase said:
chaos said:
But still, while the quality of their releases as memorabilia can be questionable, the quality of some of their shows aren't, so yep, I can see some people getting more than one copy of certain things.
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I still don't know what reason anyone would have for buying two copies of the same ordinary DVD... :?

I don't mean to badmouth MVM, they have released some of my favourite shows and have consistently good picture / sub quality - but since Beez have wised up they are the biggest offenders in offering little "singles vs boxed sets" value for money. Their singles are just not worth buying at all.
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That can be put down to the fact that MVM pick up smaller/older licences and well...they aren't really that big. Personally I'm fine with MVM....especially after they've given me Slayers for £30 a season.
 
Don't get me wrong. I've bought almost everything they released. the reason I can't buy everything they released is because I can't find. this is true for Beez and ADV as well, but not for manga or revelation.
 
MrChom said:
[Personally I'm fine with MVM....especially after they've given me Slayers for £30 a season.
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Except only yesterday I ordered the R1 seasons 1-3 of Slayers... for £40 including postage, with no chance of incurring customs charges. The box art looks a whole lot better too. This is just it - Beez and Manga are both offering something different now (better quality / value) from the US releases which means I'm less likely to import titles they have the licenses for. MVM on the other hand aren't giving me any such incentive to buy their releases. It wouldn't take much either - just an collector's box (with good cover art mind you) with the first or final volume would probably be enough to tempt me.
 
ayase said:
It wouldn't take much either - just an collector's box (with good cover art mind you) with the first or final volume would probably be enough to tempt me.
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i dont know why more companys dont do this. i mean surely they know that any good collector who has a pretty little dvd box sitting on his self and nothing to fill it is gonna have more incentive to go out and buy the rest.

Every single volume one of anything should come with a dvd box for accommodating further volumes. it just makes sense.
 
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