Shonen Jump asking for illegal Manga scans to stop

[Rui]

While scans have to be edited otherwise, they would just look awful and be not far from image above.

A good Scans generally looks better than any actual screen shots I have seen Shonen Jump as the colour are more solid and less faded. Also with it been computer image its always going to have sharper look to it than the cheap paper quality used in Shonen Jump.

Given how vocal fans are about the most trivial things, e.g. Holo's name spelling in roomaji differing by a single letter between the illegal fan versions and the authourised adaptation (Spice & Wolf), and myriad quality issues, I'm genuinely moderately surprised that people are fine with a bunch of amateurs "touching up" the authentic art. I'm not sure why it surprises me any more.

A scaled down, badly artifacted picture should not be used as an example of how the actual Shounen Jump magazine looks in person. Snapshots, like scans, do not accurately represent the physical product. The fact is that if the source is bad, the scan will look bad, unless it is touched up digitally by a careful hand. Scans simply can't make extra detail and sharpness appear where none existed in the source material.

I personally strongly disagree that Shounen Jump's line up today is particularly stronger than it was 10 or 15 years ago but it's difficult to debate when opinions are stated so firmly as immutable fact. The fact that we have a few prominent, excellent series and a lot of very similar hangers on in the same genre doesn't necessarily make it better than when the genre mix included more variety. I only personally really rate Gintama, One Piece, Bakuman and Hunter x Hunter in the current line up; about the same proportion of classics as in previous years.

R

 

[Neferpitou]

But you have to look at Dragon Ball overall appeal into other forms of media as well to see which is more popular work. As Slam Dunk even though very impress work it trails behind Dragon Ball. Be it Anime series, Video Games, Merchandise Dragon Ball has clearly had more of than Slam Dunk ever did.

This is what I'm getting at, here. HunterxHunter does possess strength in volume sales, but compared with Bleach or Gintama it doesn't have the vast arrays of merchandise that cement it as a series popular enough to peer them--and it is interesting to note that both Bleach and Gintama perform better in the polls (though no doubt their T.V. broadcasts have been instrumental in driving sales of other collectibles). The polls are not the be-all and end-all (Naruto was outperforming One Piece for a while recently, but the volume sales illustrate the disparity in relative strength) but they still paint an informative picture.

It is necessary, nevertheless, to cross-reference volume sales with other sources, though in the case of Dragonball versus Slam Dunk, a hefty amount of Dragonball merchandise may be a product of its international success, rather than its domestic superiority to Slam Dunk.

You be quiet pleasantly surprised about the number of spin off from Hunter x Hunter. Be it doing three OVA's series, OST, lots of general merchandise, Many video games (normally based off GI) and weirdly 3 Musical stage shows!

Dragon ball was already cemented itself as a massive hit in Japan before it ever came to the USA. It actually finished it JP anime TV run before even airing on USA TV I believe. Japan love of merchandise is probably greater than anyone else in the world as as you can see with 400 million gundam models sold there. Probably most of Dragon ball sales of merchandise are accounted for by the Japanese themselves. Dragon Ball has still got massive legacy in Japan with Dragon Ball Kai get really good viewers figures in Japan sometime overtaken One Piece on occasion.

 

[Neferpitou]

While scans have to be edited otherwise, they would just look awful and be not far from image above.

A good Scans generally looks better than any actual screen shots I have seen Shonen Jump as the colour are more solid and less faded. Also with it been computer image its always going to have sharper look to it than the cheap paper quality used in Shonen Jump.

Given how vocal fans are about the most trivial things, e.g. Holo's name spelling in roomaji differing by a single letter between the illegal fan versions and the authourised adaptation (Spice & Wolf), and myriad quality issues, I'm genuinely moderately surprised that people are fine with a bunch of amateurs "touching up" the authentic art. I'm not sure why it surprises me any more.

A scaled down, badly artifacted picture should not be used as an example of how the actual Shounen Jump magazine looks in person. Snapshots, like scans, do not accurately represent the physical product. The fact is that if the source is bad, the scan will look bad, unless it is touched up digitally by a careful hand. Scans simply can't make extra detail and sharpness appear where none existed in the source material.

I personally strongly disagree that Shounen Jump's line up today is particularly stronger than it was 10 or 15 years ago but it's difficult to debate when opinions are stated so firmly as immutable fact. The fact that we have a few prominent, excellent series and a lot of very similar hangers on in the same genre doesn't necessarily make it better than when the genre mix included more variety. I only personally really rate Gintama, One Piece, Bakuman and Hunter x Hunter in the current line up; about the same proportion of classics as in previous years.

R

What choice have you got? Refuse to read scans and wait years for them to be released in your native country. Even released in the English they can suffer with many problem be it translation, edited down releases or the series cancelled before finishing its run.

By translation problem I don't mean something silly like is it "ah" or "oh" My Goddess but actual translate words obviously wrongly. A bit dialogue from official English release of Hunter X Hunter volume 13 page 101 as an example:

"It'll be pointless to let them lay." when it should be obviously be its : "It'll be pointless to let them play."

They made over mistake in this volume with some numbers missing zero so instead of 30.1 billion we end up with 3.01 billion.

The Scan teams are doing the best job they can to bring these series as soon as possible for English speaking readers, they not here to make the greatest version of the manga release. They are here to promote these series which would never been known about and hopeful create fan base that will buy into the series. Without their efforts I personally wouldn't own Bleach GN 1-29, Hunter X Hunter GN 1-25, Gantz GN 1-7 and Fairytail 1-8 with out reading scans first! Of course they going to be fan that abuse scans but it not like they were going to buy the official releases in the first place.

With a computer monitor screen offering a perfectly flat, mark free and white surface something I rarely even get from english volume releases because the paper quality is rarely ever perfectly smooth surface or perfect white. There are of course exceptions like VIZBIG line which use kind of glossy paper.

The computer screen can offer you can get solid black ink colours which don't fade end iup fading into a kinda gray kind of colour. I never seen any screenshot of manga no matter how high quality the picture from Shonen Jump to offer this. As you can see from these two examples.

DON'T LOOK AT THE SCAN ONE IF YOU HAVEN'T READ UP TO HUNTER X HUNTER CHAPTURE 291!

Shonen Jump

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8769/17941337.jpg

Scan

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7285/80604228.png

Strength of today's line up is there so many series still very popular and been running for many years within it pages and don't look like thhey going to end anytime soon. There are plenty of popular manga in the past for Shonen Jump but never that many of them at the same time. Even When they had popular series like Slam Dunk or YuYu Hakusho they had only relative short runs of around 6-7 years and 4-5 years respectively.

 

[Durial666]

Well one looks like it has been photographed whilst the other looks like it has been scanned and edited. Of course it's gonna look better silly [=

 

[Neferpitou]

It maybe used on occasion on longer runner series to decided If they to be cancelled when it volumes sales hits rock bottom like shaman King did. With Shaman King last volumes where selling below 50,000 each in there first week.

They cancelled it?, how come the author go back and write new chapters due to popular demand , I believe

Like anything if fan demand more of the same and more people brought into the work after the series ending there always a chance a series may make a come back.

Series like the first Gundam Anime had it series cut down and was not that popular when first shown. But it gain more following with the reruns.

 

[Neferpitou]

Well one looks like it has been photographed whilst the other looks like it has been scanned and edited. Of course it's gonna look better silly [=

If you Actual look at them you can see the colour aren't solid black on shonen jump image. It's nothing to do with photo quality its the paper quality which causes the problem. If you want proof have close look an offical english manga releases to see this problem because of paper quality.

 

[Durial666]

Well one looks like it has been photographed whilst the other looks like it has been scanned and edited. Of course it's gonna look better silly [=

If you Actual look at them you can see the colour aren't solid black on shonen jump image. It's nothing to do with photo quality its the paper quality which causes the problem. If you want proof have close look an offical english manga releases to see this problem because of paper quality.

Edited man edited. A quick spell in photoshop to darken the lines and clean the paper makes for better manga.

 

[Neferpitou]

Well one looks like it has been photographed whilst the other looks like it has been scanned and edited. Of course it's gonna look better silly [=

If you Actual look at them you can see the colour aren't solid black on shonen jump image. It's nothing to do with photo quality its the paper quality which causes the problem. If you want proof have close look an offical english manga releases to see this problem because of paper quality.

Edited man edited. A quick spell in photoshop to darken the lines and clean the paper makes for better manga.

But is that just proving the point that the scans looks better than Shonen Jump then?

 

[Uppa]

You be quiet pleasantly surprised about the number of spin off from Hunter x Hunter. Be it doing three OVA's series, OST, lots of general merchandise, Many video games (normally based off GI) and weirdly 3 Musical stage shows!

It certainly has merchandise--and, cripes, I must have been looking for a new copy of the first OVA's soundtrack for eons now--but, crucially, what exists of it was largely released when Hunter x Hunter was at its zenith in terms of popularity, often when it usually ranked highly in the polls--so rather than having the goods spread over a wide period, it's somewhat localised around the 2001-2003 period. It's not still spawning such a wealth of collectibles, unlike Bleach or Gintama, and the nature of the merchandise doesn't venture into figurines and the like.

I'm arguing the same case for Dragonball and Slam Dunk, in a sense: the merchandise was undeniably there for D.B. domestically before its international success--but that is equally true of Slam Dunk: the difference is that Dragonball goods have kept increasing, and that is to some extent owed to D.B.'s immense success globally--which perhaps helped inspired domestic revival in Japan, given new game releases, etc.--compared with Slam Dunk.

NB. I'm still waiting for some high quality Killua and Feitan figurines...ever since Kana began releasing the volumes in French back around 2000! :x :cry:

 

[Aion]

The problem with this thread is that, where as my anger comes across as somewhat playful, Maes just looks like a bit of a plonker. I still like Dangerous Dave.

Putting two two cocks together won't result in any eggs. We need a hen.

 

[Aion]

Off-topic: Anyone with Dragon Ball as a favourite is a bit dumb, really. Intelligent folk, such as myself, favourite Gankutsuou and its ilk - titles that don't only offer mindless violence and screaming. (Intelligent folk also have Death Note as their second favourite, and GTO as their favourite manga, for the record.)

On-topic: I tend not to enjoy reading scans on my monitor. I will do so but, more often than not, I don't have enough motivation to sit clicking through pages/bending over my monitor. When I actually own the manga, and can chill with it on my bed, I feel far more 'drive'. That's why I'm always willing to wait/catch-up with releases when I like something.

The annoying thing about fan translation groups is that they tend to focus on kiddy ****; much like the fans they translate their **** for. Where, oh where, are my Life scans? Tokyopop dropped it/were forced to drop it (I'm guessing no-one paid money for it; it being about bullying and all)... and not even the internet can offer a helping hand because everyone is too busy getting their Bleach/Naruto/One Piece on. Typical.

The +1 and -1 sides of piracy do kind of cancel each other out. On one hand you have people viewing/reading what they never would've given a chance if not for 'freebies' on the internet - a fair number of those people ending up paying money for what they started through illegal means. However, on the other hand you have the huge amount of cheap people who are actually proud of not buying anything AT ALL; instead revealing with pride what they have on 1TB EHDDs. (Most of those people gather on MAL.)

In my case, I never would've started Naruto had it not been available for free the pirate way on the net, and I probably wouldn't have bothered with the manga had I not got started with 'part two' via the net. Heck, I probably wouldn't even be typing about anime/manga now had it not been for anime being so easy to download!

The whole Rumiko Takahashi Anthology mess does highlight how little the majority of anime fans are willing to spend; even when one of the most famous mangaka in existence has her name as part of the title. But Geneon didn't sell for cheap, and anime fans - most being the annoying as **** variety of human beings - don't like slice of life/realistic types as much as their action and boobies. That's life.

...Oh! And asking people nicely never does any good. Only the immediate threat of being charged/getting disconnected from the tubes/going to jail and meeting Bubba in the showers will stop people wanting to be praised for playing the role of Robin Hood. That's kind of why people bribed a lot of other people to get all these recent internet/downloading laws passed.

 

[ConanThe3rd]

The only thing this will effect is the translation of lesser known or otherwise ignored-by-the-companies series.

Oh, there'll still be One Piece, Naruto and Bleach scanlations up the bum but if you want to read something that has no chance of a US release like Voilinist of Hamelin, Magical Circle GuruGuru, Seto No Hanayome or Lucifer & Biscut Hammer then you're screwed.

I'm fine with playing by the rules of buy stuff, but stuff needs to be there for me to buy it, it's a two way street.

 

[ilmaestro]

I'm fine with playing by the rules of buy stuff, but stuff needs to be there for me to buy it, it's a two way street.

Do you buy the Japanese releases of stuff, then, so that you're still supporting the companies?

 

[ConanThe3rd]

I'm fine with playing by the rules of buy stuff, but stuff needs to be there for me to buy it, it's a two way street.

Do you buy the Japanese releases of stuff, then, so that you're still supporting the companies?

If there was a way to do it without tearing the **** out of proceedings given that the story will be illegible, yes.

But my doing that should not be an out for the US/UK Companies for doing similar.

 

[sanji no 1]

Well i think the bigger problem here is that Naruto, Luffy and Ichigo are at the front, and Goku isnt even on the magazine!

OUTRAGEOUS!!!!

 

[ilmaestro]

I'm fine with playing by the rules of buy stuff, but stuff needs to be there for me to buy it, it's a two way street.

Do you buy the Japanese releases of stuff, then, so that you're still supporting the companies?

If there was a way to do it without tearing the **** out of proceedings given that the story will be illegible, yes.

But you read the scans, so you already know the story?

 

[kippy666]

Nerd rage!!! (Kinda I'm too nice to rage at people I don't know)

I currently have all of the volume of Bleach and Naruto (Sorry to use such popular manga as an example but Its the only thing I read online in the long term) the main reason why I read them online is because I want to know what's going on in the newer chapters, but to be honest if it was all taken down and I had to wait for the official release I don't think I would care that much. I think some people use the fact that we can be so behind on manga as an excuse to read it online and not buy the volumes. If there was a legal way to read the new chapters online then I think we all would read it there. Unfortunately nothing like that has happened yet so we all just have to either just buy the manga or continue to read things illegally online. Or do both! Maybe...

Even though things aren't as up to date as we would like them to be I would think that if someone really loved a series they would buy it instead of reading it all online. I understand that some people don't have the money but if you really enjoyed the manga and you have the money and you refuse to buy the volumes because it is online for free then I'm sorry but I do not consider you a fan of this manga, in fact I think that you are more of a leech.

Also as I'm sure people have already said but scans can be pretty useful if your interested in a manga series and want to confirm if its something you want to spend your hard earned cash on. Before I buy a manga that I know nothing about I read the first few chapters, read reviews and ask people who have read it what its like later on.

Sorry for the ramble ¬¬.

 

[kippy666]

cha........ cause asking people not to pirate........ always worked well in the past

Asking first is better than going on a huge rampage of carnage! CARNAGE!!!!!!! Carnage I say!!!!

 

[Neferpitou]

You be quiet pleasantly surprised about the number of spin off from Hunter x Hunter. Be it doing three OVA's series, OST, lots of general merchandise, Many video games (normally based off GI) and weirdly 3 Musical stage shows!

It certainly has merchandise--and, cripes, I must have been looking for a new copy of the first OVA's soundtrack for eons now--but, crucially, what exists of it was largely released when Hunter x Hunter was at its zenith in terms of popularity, often when it usually ranked highly in the polls--so rather than having the goods spread over a wide period, it's somewhat localised around the 2001-2003 period. It's not still spawning such a wealth of collectibles, unlike Bleach or Gintama, and the nature of the merchandise doesn't venture into figurines and the like.

I'm arguing the same case for Dragonball and Slam Dunk, in a sense: the merchandise was undeniably there for D.B. domestically before its international success--but that is equally true of Slam Dunk: the difference is that Dragonball goods have kept increasing, and that is to some extent owed to D.B.'s immense success globally--which perhaps helped inspired domestic revival in Japan, given new game releases, etc.--compared with Slam Dunk.

NB. I'm still waiting for some high quality Killua and Feitan figurines...ever since Kana began releasing the volumes in French back around 2000! :x :cry:

My theory is you can truly judge a popularity of Manga series are three things:

1.) Volume Sales
2.) Merchandise
3.) Influence

Volumes sales it oblivious that Hunter X Hunter has massive edge over Gintama. With Hunter X Hunter been Hiatus constantly for months maybe for year at time. With this pattern repeat it self constantly for years, with little new merchandise and no extra exposer because TV series. Hunter X Hunter latest volumes still sell double in their first week than Gintama just show the gap there is between the two.

On merchandise how do we know Gintama sell more merchandise than Hunter X Hunter? It may look on the surface with Gintama turning out more merchandise. But while their maybe more of it who to say it sell better per unit than Hunter X Hunter does.

There maybe reason for less Hunter X Hunter merchandise these day be it that the original stuff sell that well they don't see the need to release new stuff. Maybe Yoshihiro Togashi himself has put his foot down and veto it as he somewhat a bit maverick in the Manga world.

With the story it self has taken a different turn with the current Arc and with its continuous hiatus making merchandise opportunities limited to say the least.

But saying all that its still very likely that Gintama indeed does sell more merchandise than Hunter X Hunter currently does.

But this could all change though with Gintama tv seires now finished and with the current Hunter X Hunter Arc drawing to a close, I could Imagine a new series could be on the way to cover the Arc.

I don't think they wanted before to create a New TV series until they could at least finish off an Arc in entirety. As you can see with the previous anime series with 2 of the 4 series blocks stopped half way through an Arc.

Influence is something we can only see in time and only really once both series have finished there run to see if other follow in their foot steps. So with these two series it probably to early to judge them yet.

On to Dragon Ball and Slam Dunk:

While Dragon Ball and Slam Dunk were very close on Manga Volume sales wise in Japan at least. International sales I guess Dragon Ball has sold a lot more Slam Dunk. Merchandise it clearly Dragon Ball has massive lead over Slam Dunk.

But what I think set Dragon Ball part from Slam Dunk is it legacy. Dragon Ball to this day has had a massive influence on today Manga artist & Manga. While I struggle to think of that many Manga that Slam Dunk has inspired, Dragon Ball on other hand has a major infulence over near all the many fighting shonen of the current era.