Red Garden

Aion

Time-Traveller
I chucked in the first (of four) Red Garden DVDs last night.

The first thing that has to be said is this: Funimation screwed up. I remember it being said by a certain turban-wearing reviewer that Shigurui had a grain effect inserted intentionally. At the time, I thought it looked too poor to be 100% intentional, and I blamed it on the fact the entire series was crammed into two DVDs by Funimation. Red Garden looks like Shigurui.

On the ANN (iirc) forum, there's one post by someone who compared the older ADV releases with the Funimation releases. What he said was that, though even the ADV DVDs have the grain effect, it looks far worse on the Funimation DVDs; the lower quality encoding creating artifacts that make it look worse... or something.

...But, having said all of the above, the Funimation releases don't look TERRIBLE. It's just a matter of the dark scenes - of which there are many in what is a dark show - not looking as nice as they could. My eyes adjusted to the grain after awhile and it stopped troubling me.

As for the series itself, it was very odd to watch at first. It's an americanized anime, with a US setting, common English names (there's even a Luke!), and the school socializing scenes are far less formal than what I'm used to seeing in anime. Gonzo even made an attempt to make the characters look more... American by making most of the female characters' lips HUGE.

I imagine it'd be awkward for any anime fan to watch at first. Gonzo themselves even seemed to struggle; forgetting that bowing to show courtesy isn't done outside of Japan!

The more I watched, the more I got into it, though. It started very slowly, switching between all the main characters in the first episode, and then had them battle some kind of humanoid monster in the second. The pacing did worry me to begin with but, once the characters became more than just character types to me, I started to care.

There are some awkward scenes that appear to have been thrown in for the hell of it; namely full-on singing scenes, where each character sings part of a song at random. Also worth noting is the fact the transition between the start and end of the episodes is often 'off'; the second episode starting with the characters somehow having trapped themselves in a car park with a huge fence around it. But I guess these things happen when you don't have any source material to work with...

Random awkwardness aside, A lot of people seem to complain about the pacing - comparing it to Gantz and suggesting it's far more boring - but I wasn't bored, and I don't see the comparison. Gantz is a package containing violence, sex and characterization, with a horny as hell lead that males worldwide can relate to. Red Garden is a drama about girls learning to cope when their lives are turned upside down - one character, party girl Rachel, realizing that her out-going friends aren't real friends at all once her situation changed; changing herself as a direct result.

The four main characters are based on common enough social stereotypes: there's a tough as nails tomboy; a loud-mouthed party girl; an upper-class, well respected girl, and a quiet nerdy girl. My main concern early on was that they'd remain as little more than cutouts, but the most recent episodes have shown enough attention to detail and development to suggest Red Garden will be just my cup of tea: a character-driven anime where characterization is valued over all else.

I'm unsure at this point about the story. Aside from mysterious people in suits being shown, dog-like, humanoid monsters attacking the main characters and all the main characters revealed to be dead already, there's been nothing concrete. At this stage, I'm watching just for the characters.

...So, overall, I like it a lot so far--I'd give it around 8/10, six episodes in. The DVD quality has been a little disappointing, but the art (aside from an odd looking face or two) looks good and the animation has flowed quite well. And, with it being a 'characterization > everything else' series, I'm hopeful that I've randomly stumbled across a gem.


Has anyone else watched it?
 
I saw this. It was quite a while ago so I don't remember it that well but the singing stayed with me as seeming a little awkward. I liked how the girls were portrayed quite realistically, warts and all, and not just mindless cute automatons as in a lot of popular anime.

I mostly hated Rachel, but also thought she was one of the more interesting to watch as she expressed herself the most clearly of the bunch. Lula's face scared me. The gradients for hair and other visual experiments were quite a nice touch. It was nice seeing a perversion of the usual magical girl schtick and a bunch of girls from different classes of society forced together against their will. A little like a mean spirited version of Sailor Moon would have ended up with more visceral violent twists.

The grain effect startled me too; try as I might I couldn't believe that the Funimation version was what the makers had in mind. Even the high contrast opening is a pain graphically; I bet it would really benefit from a serious bitrate boost and a blu-ray version even if it was not animated in HD (I don't know whether it was or not) or at least some reauthoured singles again like the ADV release with fewer episodes per disc.

R
 
I guess, even when everyone else can't be bothered to discuss anything, I can rely on the eternal lurker to come out of her slumber when someone makes an anime thread with a lengthy opening post. :)

Because I'm dumb and I only feel like watching anime when I should be sleeping (/owl), I watched the second disc. I wasn't impressed.

Even though the content on the first disc moved slowly, there was sense of purpose behind the proceedings. First the character introductions, then the introduction of monster battles and, finally, character development that fleshed out all four girls; Rachel in particular getting a lot of time.

But the second disc simply went around in circles. Rather than watching an anime with an established episode count, it was like watching some mediocre teen girl high school drama. Nothing advanced, and there was near to no action.

For example, Rachel's love life should've been partly resolved after the end of the first disc. However, the situation reset itself and, by the end of the second disc, her and her boyfriend are now in a similar situation; the only difference being a yawn worthy sub-plot involving one of the 'team party groupies' hooking up with Rachel's boyfriend. Zzzzzzzzz.

I'm hoping the run up to the finale gets going soon because it's now painfully obvious Gonzo did an improved version of what Bee Train do on a regular basis, without any flashbacks or staring contests. It's all quite sneaky, really--attempting to trick people into thinking they're seeing character development when, ultimately, all they're being shown is the same **** executed in a slightly different manner.

Turning the series into a musical of sorts has to be one of the most unique time wasting exercises, mind you. I can just see the conversation the Gonzo higher ups had when planning Red Garden:

'Hey, I know how to save on animation costs AND not have to advance anything at the same time! Why don't we have the characters, at complete random, start singing some boring song about being happy or sad to fit the mood for five minutes? And, because we hate those English speaking cheapskates, let's write in any licensing contract that the lyrics have to be hard to hear and cannot match the subtitles! It's ingenious!!!'

********s. Maybe I shouldn't be so harsh since I keep laughing whenever everyone starts singing as if they've rehearsed in advance, and without any build-up, but c'mon...


Turning to your comments, I do like how four girls from totally different social groups have been forced together and have to fight to survive. But there's one big, ugly plot hole that connected them in the first place: the girl that ALL of these girls were friends with, at the same time. How on earth can one person get on with a classy/elegant chick, a party chick, a violent tomboy and a quiet/nerdy chick at the same time? Was this girl like the ultimate human or something? And it's totally implausible for all four of these girls to decide to look for their missing friend together.

I was willing to overlook that one flaw before, but not when the quality has dropped so much since the first disc.

As for the colour usage and whatnot, the characters' hair, skin and all the rest have caught my eyes on a number of occasions. Gonzo clearly put a lot of effort into that side. It's just a shame the graininess has kind of taken away from the visual experience. Without wanting to sound racist, the rarest of rare in anime - black people - don't look so great when they're flickering constantly.

...So, yeah, going on how Fabriluna found Gantz slow-paced enough to 6/10 it - even with the boobs and violence - and is struggling to deal with the quality characterization of Noein, I'm guessing he'll rate it 5-6/10 unless there's a serious improvement.

My ratings so far:

Disc 1: 8/10
Disc 2: 6/10
 
I'm halfway through watching it now - and therefore I only read half of your initial post for fear of spoilers!

It took me a while to adjust to it, in terms of its bizarre yet beautiful character designs and slow pacing. It feels really 90s to me when I watch it - the dub is very western as you said, which is something Manga Video used to do when they were still releasing on VHS. Plus, yes, Rachel needs a hard slap round the face, she is one of the most annoying anime characters ever!

So far I would probably give it a 7 out of 10 (up to episode 12) as it still doesn't feel as if the real crux of the series has kicked in yet. But, i'm intrigued enough by it to want to watch the rest, as well as the OVA.
 
I'm 'halfway' through, myself: 12/22, and I've given it 7/10; like yourself.

I wouldn't put spoilers in unmarked when making forum posts. There's nothing to spoil, in all honesty--the story has been practically non-existent and, apart from at the start, the character advancement hasn't been significant, either.

Yeah, lol, the dub is certainly... interesting. I like how Rachel has full-on bitch-fests; calling everyone sluts and fags. She's not like your typical, uptight Japanese anime female, that's for sure!

I don't hate Rachel because, like Roy pointed out, she's the best developed of the lot. She may lack likability, but she does come across as 'real'.

I'll probably watch the last two discs over today and tomorrow; one per day. I'll try to blend Giant Robot in... If I don't, I'll never finish the stupid ******* thing. (Nice one, Fabriluna! Cocker.)
 
After spending so much money on anime, buying many woeful titles, I like to think I've improved when it comes to picking out gems without spending much. Usually, I can tell just by reading the basic description if I'm going to get enjoyment out of *insert title here*.

Sadly for me, I didn't use my 'nose' when I was quick to order Red Garden for under £18, split over two Funimation sets. The first reason I didn't put too much thought into the purchase was due to it being a Gonzo title; Gonzo seeming to match my dark/characterization heavy tastes the best with their titles. The second reason was that someone I type to on a more regular basis than I should having purchased the series himself; him having previously informed me he does lots of research before buying anime. (He's a deep thinker, that one...)

All I can say to that person is this: YOU WERE HAPPY TO PAY FOR THIS ****, YET YOU REFUSE TO EVEN WATCH CLAYMORE BECAUSE YOUR 'SOURCES' HAVE CONFIRMED YOUR BELIEF THAT IT HAS TOO MANY LINKS TO DBZ? GO **** YOURSELF, YOU MESSAGE DELETING COCKER!

I both love and hate Gonzo now. Truly, they are the very definition of 'hit and miss'.

Example 1:
They adapted 'The Count of Monte Cristo' - one of the longest novels I've read - and managed to create one of the most stunning anime my eyes will ever witness.

They also adapted 'The Seven Samurai' - one of the most famous Japanese movies of all time - and ruined it by inserting robots, having samurai slice through battleships, dragging a three hour story out so much it was painful and removing any believability from the best character in the story.

Example 2:
They created an anime based on the famous US comic series 'Witchblade', discarding the original story and characters entirely; ending up creating the most heartfelt mother and daughter story I've seen in anime. Without any source material, the sluggish start aside, they got the pacing just right.

And then there's Red Garden; an Americanized anime created by Gonzo from scratch.

With that said, let me tell you why Red Garden failed, ending up getting 5/10 from me: NOTHING ever sodding happens. At the start it seems like there's going to be a great blend of action and what I love seeing in my anime--characters getting developed in-depth. But the start is completely misleading and, after a quite good action episode early on, there's pretty much NO action throughout the series. And I'm not joking.

Not that a series having little to no action is a bad thing in my mind. Far from it. While it's true I lack sensitivity with both my tongue and fingers (refer to a line from the Van Damme flick 'Desert Heat' to discover the most sensitive part of me), it's also true I'm more in-touch from my inner woman than most guys. Not only do I have violent mood swings (more than once a month, FYI), I'm fond of romances AND can sit through episodes of non-stop talking... providing the talking eventually leads to something productive.

The problem is, the conversations in Red Garden always go around in circles, also involving the exact same people. Each of the four main girls have a group of 'friend characters' that they hang-out with, and each girl has a problem that'd work very well in your average teen girl drama. But the pacing is so bloody slow that you could be mistaken for believing you're watching one of those endless UK soaps where, every time I switch on the TV, after not having watched an episode for years, the same characters and problems are being dealt with.

The average Red Garden episode goes roughly like this:
Kate deals with complaints about being a poor member of 'Grace' (the elite of the school all four of the female leads go to), talks to her sister about her sister's new boyfriend or goes on a date with Herve. The focus then switches to another girl. If it switches to Clare, she hangs out with a simple-minded guy called Juan, talking about much of nothing, works at a burger place or deals with her father/brother issues that aren't related to the story in any way. Next, if the focus switches to Rose, the viewer is forced to watch her whine about being weak or search for her deadbeat father together with her nerdy friend. And then, assuming the last of the four to get time is Rachel, the viewer has to try to survive yet another attempt at extending her relationship with party guy Luke; these dull conversations, which seemed to me to cover the same ground every time, sometimes being broken up by Rachel having coffee with her teacher... for no good reason.

I'm being deadly serious here when I say, with the odd short battle against monsters who have dog noises for voices (which always end in victory for the girls) aside, that the above is how nearly all of the episodes go. Only in the final episode does this formula change and, honestly, at that point I was asking myself, 'Why didn't this happen like ten episodes earlier?'

Whenever there was anything bordering on story progression, it'd happen at random. For example: Kate just happens to be outside the base of the 'enemy' making a phone call when some men in suits just happen to come out and capture her for experimentation purposes. There's never a feeling of the previous episodes building up to anything, the start aside. It got to a point where I was happy to be done with a disc just so I could stop watching for the day--that's how into it I was.

And, talking of the plot, it's never explained in detail; mainly because it's too dumb to be explained. One group stole a book many years ago... and cursed themselves by doing so. Why did they steal the book? The hell if I know because that was never revealed. For all I know, the people who stole the book were in desperate need of new reading material. It was never even revealed why the people who held both books originally had them, or how these people have the ability to revive the dead in new bodies. Even though there were so many episodes that I couldn't even remember much of anything about after finishing watching due to the lack of meaningful occurrences, nothing solid was ever revealed about what the hell was going on.

Really, it's a damn shame because there aren't many good anime out there with female leads, and next to none have an all-female cast of main characters. It could've been something special but, ultimately, Gonzo had no plan and clearly hoped that the main characters alone would be enough to impress female viewers. They must think very little of females, though, since I doubt most lacking a penis would consider a series that goes around in an endless loop to be decent entertainment...

...You know what, enough. It saddens me that I sat all the way through a series that got its title from flowers randomly blooming at the very end; leading to a totally pointless futuristic OVA that, even more depressingly, was more entertaining than the actual series itself because it didn't spend 22 episodes showing sleep-inducing content stretched to the maximum.

Next, I'm going to watch Moonlight Mile (aka Manly Mile) in order to see Planetes with less space ninjas and more sexing. I need something involving men with muscles, swearing and rough sex after watching this pile of ****. Surely Manly Mile can't be bad... right?
 
Finally finished it. It was an ok series - I think the action picks up at the end and it stops being slow-paced and boring but you do have to sit through about 15 or so episodes of the paper-thin characterisation to get to the actual action. I preferred the OVA.

One good thing: Gonzo are known for putting lots of CGI into their series. This has hardly any and thus looks better for it (compared to maybe Last Exile which has way too much pointless CGI).

I think the problem with this series is that it wasn't really marketed that well by Funi - it seems like its going to be a dark, gothic action series (from the DVD covers and artwork) but it really isn't.

It gets a 6/10, and the OVA gets a 7/10.
 
I agree with one of the statements above that Red Garden is 'awkward'. It doesn't quite settle its choice between teen angst drama and monster-hunting action show. It was probably going for a sort of Buffy effect, but failed on the execution (pacing, likeable characters, delivering surprises).

It's quirky and refreshing in places - I particularly liked its focus on the development of the girls - but not brilliantly so.
 
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