Otaku

S

Sy

Time-Traveller
I'm curious as to how Japanese terms like 'Otaku' translate over to people born and rasied in a western culture outside of Japan. Do you consider yourself to be an 'Otaku' and what do you associate the term with?
 
I -think- I know your take on the word, and I wholeheartedly agree. People seem to be proud off being called Otaku, Even though it means overly obsessed or like for us in the west. But, I think its fine for someone to take a love of a certain interest in Japan, speaking Japanese - Therefore being themselves being "otaku". Personally, I dislike it when people use it. Its fine to like something to a certain extent. I should get rid of the personal hatred towards the word, though. I can see why people are addicted to something in a certain culture and taking a word from that culture. So, In that sense. Its fine, the same in how we use the words anime and manga instead of animation and comic.

..Hopefully that makes some sense.
 
Thanks for the reply.

I have no problems with people taking an interest in other cultures but when people from the west proudly claim to be Otaku I can't help but think they somewhat miss the stigma that's attached to the term. After all it's a term that was attached to a man who obsessed over hentai and attempted to live out his rape fantasies. That to me would be enough to suggest that the term is not flattering and I for one would be insulted by it.
 
I think it's perfectly OK to use the term over here. I take it's meaning in the west to be similar to 'nerd' but less offensive and specifically in the context of anime and manga and any closely related fields such as Cosplay and modeling (ie Gunpla).

Once a word is adopted into another language it is quite normal for it to take on a somewhat altered meaning. I can't be bothered trying to think of any right now but I bet there are loads, especially from French and German. This is possibly a poor example but people often refer to really good things as being 'Ãœber' something. But 'Ãœber' means 'over' in German.
 
I consider myself a geek and an otaku... I'm guess I'm just your usual oddball.. =)

I believe the term otaku is used in the west most as identity for anime fans. In Japan its pejorative though.
 
Agreed with chaos that western its used mainly for anime addicts (like myself) or game addicts (like myself).

I do believe if it became an official name over here then yes i would be an otaku haha.
 
In the transition certain terms do become distorted but what I find odd is that they can proudly proclaim to be an Otaku or a Moe fan rather than accepting the context of how it is seen. It has been ingored and they accept it as just another cool japanese word they can use to seemingly appear more cultured.

I don't belive the term should be taken so lightly given the impact it's had on Japans culture to the point of becoming a subculture of it's own and being the subject of much critique. They are generally seen as reclusive, childish people who obsessively collect and become fixated with anime/manga characters to the point of actually falling in love. The fact that anybody would want to be branded with a name that carries that kind of weight suggests to me that they just think it's a cool sounding word.
 
Back home (Brazil) there is a huge otaku community... they did had this kind of discussions when some cosplayers from Brazil started going to compete in the Japanese cosplayer event (can't remember it's name now...)
 
Sy said:
... The fact that anybody would want to be branded with a name that carries that kind of weight suggests to me that they just think it's a cool sounding word.
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True :)

Well, I come from Brazil, where english terms sounds cool, so we used them indiscriminately. And hey, japanese does uses english terms a lot.. I can hear them all the time. and wait a sec, aren't they using those words incorrectly? well, I guess they are...

My point been, that if the word used in a different language, it means a different thing. Language is alive and ever changing, so if otaku means anime fan to a lot of people, maybe it is... ;)
 
But after they find out that the word they've been using to describe part of themselves is something you normally wouldn't want to be assosiated with, you would think that they would stop using it. It's almost like they're in denial and don't want to know.

In many ways it seems like how many Japanese Otaku collectors ignore the critique against their lifestyles in Takashi Murakami's works and just delight in the fact that it's aesthetically pleasing.
 
Sy said:
I don't belive the term should be taken so lightly given the impact it's had on Japans culture to the point of becoming a subculture of it's own and being the subject of much critique. They are generally seen as reclusive, childish people who obsessively collect and become fixated with anime/manga characters to the point of actually falling in love.
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Sounds like a lot of Western fans I have met :p

I'm a pretty socially maladjusted obsessed fan myself, so I wouldn't be mortified to be called Otaku (though I'm not a criminal). I don't personally look for labels in general for myself as I don't like them, but it's far from being the least accurate in this case - in its original context. A lot of fans probably know the meaning and use it self-deprecatingly too. Heck even calling yourself a "geek" was social suicide when I was at school.

R
 
If enough people use 'otaku' in a positive sense, it loses its negative implications - but this only seems to be the case outside Japan. I'm no expert on the situation in Japan, but perhaps it's too negative a word in Japan to ever be reclaimed or appropriated.

Personally I only ever use it as part of the compound word 'otakusphere' to mean 'the anime blogosphere', because I think 'blogosphere' sounds stupid and ugly to the ear, and also confusingly like 'logosphere' (which is a perfectly good Greek-derived compound, not some nasty Frankenstein's monster of a word like 'blogosphere'). I'm prepared to take the risk of sounding insulting to avoid having to use 'blogosphere' because I hate the word.

[Ok, langauge rant over.]

And, to pick up Rui's point, 'reclusive, childish people who obsessively collect and become fixated with anime/manga characters to the point of actually falling in love' sounds a little like myself and people I know. And maybe those aren't positive characteristics - being reviled by society might make some 'reclusive, childish people' grow up a little.
 
I think in the west we use otaku as an easy more specific way to label ourselves and others obssed with the anime and manga collecting scene, where mearly using terms like geek or nerd may not be descriptive enough, not all western otaku display other geek or nerd traits. I myself am pretty much a comic nerd but not to any real extent a computer geek (mac whore maybe) (geek and nerd may be interchangeable). What’s more worrying about myself than being classed as otaku is my on going trend towards hikikomori, but that’s another story.

I think most in the west have some idea of the negative connotations of otaku in Japan but probably to what extent. There are people in any group, subculture or hobby that can and will take things to extremes and of course these will be where the media focus. In the west we have a growing tradition of the groups targeted by words to reappropriate those words e.g. geeks being proud to call themselves geeks removing the power of the taunts, black people using the “N wordâ€
 
I take the term "otaku" to mean nothing more than obsessive fan. I don't consider myself one.

The term doesn't carry the same perjorative connotations in the west as it does in Japan, and therefore I don't see a problem with people labelling themselves "otaku". Except, of course, that labels are generally rather silly and pointless.
 
I consider myself a huge anime fan, but not an otaku. I personally define otaku as the type that gets involved in the more obscure sides of the fandom, such as cosplay, hentai... you know, the weirder stuff.
 
Sy said:
But after they find out that the word they've been using to describe part of themselves is something you normally wouldn't want to be assosiated with, you would think that they would stop using it. It's almost like they're in denial and don't want to know.

In many ways it seems like how many Japanese Otaku collectors ignore the critique against their lifestyles in Takashi Murakami's works and just delight in the fact that it's aesthetically pleasing.
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I would say that for young people as ourselves it is more difficult to notice how english is influenced by other languages. As I mentioned before, I'm brazilian and I did notice brazilian portuguese being influenced by english / japanese and many other "first world" languages.

Once again I grew up in a different culture. Can't say I was popular / unpopular. I did know loads of people and loads of people knew me. Some liked me, a few hated me, most simply didn't care. And I guess that's how things are.

The cultural settings for people in here to use otaku is different as in Japan. I would say that in there, everybody likes anime and manga to some extent. Or else, there would simply be no market for adult manga / anime.

An Otaku in there is someone who loses deliberately their socials skills for the love of anime / manga. In a country where people are not really known for social skills, I would say that it may indicate even a sort of mental illness.
A good sample would be the opening scene of the prostitute ep fom Paranoia agent.

But in the west, most people I know who call themselves otakus, like to socialize, have a tendency to lead a life that differentiates REAL life and their HOBBY. They like anime and manga, but anime and manga do not interfere with their life.

That's how I see it anyway...
 
chaos said:
Rui said:
..I wouldn't be mortified to be called Otaku (though I'm not a criminal). ...
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I don't get the criminal part...
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I guess it's the association with the darker aspects.

While I would say there seems to be the general view that there is a loss of social skills when people try to define Otaku they still do seem to socialise but mainly only people who share their interests within the niche, in otherwords other Otaku. To me though that still seems like alienation and avoidance of real relationships and issues. It's escapeism.

Thanks for the replies guys, it's interesting to read what you all think.
 
My term for an Otaku is someone who has a large collection of anime/manga, and wants to go in-depth with it. This can be making drawings, researching the culture behind the anime, collecting merchandise etc.
The differences in fandom come like this:
Fair-weather fan - has the odd book/series. They're just bored and thought the book/show was interesting.
Anime/Manga fan - Has a number of manga and anime series, but they collect a lot of Hollywood/Western stuff too. They may have the odd merchandise, but no collection.
Otaku - The dedicated. They will get shirts, models and have a large collection. They will try to get as much fun out of anime/manga as possible, as they are passionate about it (for better or worse). This doesn't necessary mean they're pervs or psychos, although there are some wierdos that go to any length.

I've been called an otaku by another anime fan, so I consider that to be (and proud of it.) While Ryo collects lots of anime, I'm more the manga side of the expenses. I do have my own series though, so I consider it a team effort. ;)

chaos said:
An Otaku in there is someone who loses deliberately their socials skills for the love of anime / manga. In a country where people are not really known for social skills, I would say that it may indicate even a sort of mental illness.
A good sample would be the opening scene of the prostitute ep fom Paranoia agent.

But in the west, most people I know who call themselves otakus, like to socialize, have a tendency to lead a life that differentiates REAL life and their HOBBY. They like anime and manga, but anime and manga do not interfere with their life.
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I'm no spokesperson, but I dont mind socialising. I just dont get invited most places (usually just workmates out for the end-of-month clubbing). I don't have much gossip knowledge, which is what 90% of chat is. I just reply graciously and try to be a good guest.
 
Sy said:
...To me though that still seems like alienation and avoidance of real relationships and issues. It's escapeism.
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I believe that in a certain way, most forms of entertainment are escapism. But, still I rather watch and talk about anime than getting pissed at my local pub... =)
 
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