Gankutsuou - How can we make UK distributors release it?

Aion

Aion

Time-Traveller
It's one of the greatest series ever released (a statement backed up by pro and fan reviews), has the most artistic and stunning looking CG clothing/hair effect I've ever seen and is based on one of the most famous novels of all time. Despite all this, it looks like it'll never be released in any PAL regions outside of AU.

I don't get it. Unlike nearly all other anime series, it has a sales angle that would attract people - The title. If someone who's read the novel walked past it in the store they would pick it up, read the back, see it's an adaptation of the famous novel and possibly go on to buy it. With decent advertisement, it would be an almost certain hit in terms of sales...well, at least in terms of UK anime DVD sales.

What could we do to try to get ADV, MVM, Beez or Manga to release it? We have a Beez representative and we're *supposed* to have a Manga representative on here, the biggest UK anime forum. Maybe my thinking is a little too simple, but surely SOMEONE would release it over here if enough people cry and beg?

A comment made by Jerome (the Manga Ent. person) made me wonder even more about why it hasn't been released:

Jerome said:
There are also other ways of saving money such as sharing production and authoring costs with another PAL region distributor like Madman in Australia or Kaze in France. But, this is always not practical or necessarily allowed under our agreements with the Licensors in Japan.
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Madman have released Gankutsuou in AU. After seeing what Jerome said, surely that makes it easier for the series to get released on our shores than with most other series? :/
 
Nice movie, Aion - we really need that series released over here (haven't seen it yet, but it does look oh-so-amazing). I'd be more than happy to do whatever I can to help, though my inner-cynic tells me it's not going to happen :/

Perhaps Andrew from Beez could offer some advice about Gankutsuou?
 
If you could guarantee sales between 1000-3000 units then they would probably license it. But it would be price pending.
 
It does make me wonder sometimes - as Aion said, the name alone will garner interest for this one, helped by the experimental style and relative newness. Yet we get things like Utawarerumono and Salaryman Kintaro here - not that they're necessarily bad shows, but surely they can't be expected to sell on the same level.

I appreciate different companies were involved and the licencing alliances which they had would make it easier to bring some shows out than others, but still in a smaller market than most territories I'd imagine the Gankutsuous have a lot more sales potential by an order of magnitude than the game spinoffs or slightly older, cheaply-made, very "Japanese" series. I'm very fond of the latter myself but I can't see them being cash cows for their distributors :(

I hope some more of the "lost" Geneon shows get picked up here. Or maybe the HD market will get some of the flashier ones, eventually... (debate about blu-ray vs digital distribution beyond the scope of this comment).

R
 
Interestingly, Andrew has said in the past that Gankutsuou happens to be one of his favourite series. I guess the reason Beez haven't released it is because they seem to only release Bandai titles? I'm sure Andrew would have supported the idea of having one his favourite series released in Europe if Beez were willing to release it.

Like Rui said, we get titles like Utawarerumono that have little chance to sell based on the stupidly long and unpronounceable titles alone and we don't get a show with The Count of Monte Cristo on the title - Where is the logic in that? It's no wonder the UK anime industry isn't doing too great if distributors avoid releasing obvious sellers!!!

I have no idea how we'd go about getting it released over here... That is why I'm asking the more knowledgeable folk what we who want it released should do. We would certainly have more chance if there were ADV and MVM representatives on this board, ADV being the most likely to want to release it since they released Le Chevalier D'eon over here...
 
CitizenGeek said:
Do you mean 1000-3000 sales per volume or for the entire series?
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Normally per volume, I believe. The figure I always hear banded about is that an anime title need to secure sales of 3000 per volume to be capable of making even on costs (you'd be scared at how many titles never get that far)

Rui said:
...helped by the experimental style ...
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Last I hear it was the unique style that was one of it's detracting factors to the general market.
Whilst a fair chunk of the fanbase, plus a lot of anime critics, hold Gankutsuou in high regard, when it comes to the general public (i.e. those casual anime fans who are less likely to be exposed to good reviews beforehand about it) its always been seen as a high risk licence.
It's one of those niche titles that Geneon were famed for, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it did too well on making it's money back in the states?
 
Aion said:
Like Rui said, we get titles like Utawarerumono that have little chance to sell based on the stupidly long and unpronounceable titles alone and we don't get a show with The Count of Monte Cristo on the title - Where is the logic in that? It's no wonder the UK anime industry isn't doing too great if distributors avoid releasing obvious sellers!!!
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I don't think it's that simple; I don't think distributors are that stupid. There's obviously a reason they're not releasing Gankutsuou over here, probably licensing problems or a lack of success in the US, or skepticism as result of the 'out there' art style.
 
Fellistowe said:
Last I hear it was the unique style that was one of it's detracting factors to the general market.
Whilst a fair chunk of the fanbase, plus a lot of anime critics, hold Gankutsuou in high regard, when it comes to the general public (i.e. those casual anime fans who are less likely to be exposed to good reviews beforehand about it) its always been seen as a high risk licence.
It's one of those niche titles that Geneon were famed for, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it did too well on making it's money back in the states?
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I fail to see how something looking amazing could be seen as a minus point. When we're still seeing old and dated 4:3 series such as Shadow Skill being released, how does Gonzo having a huge budget to work with when they made Gankutsuou make the series more of a risk? I'd call MVM releasing Berserk so late in the day more of a risk - An old, very dated looking series with a disturbing end.

You can't argue that Gankutsuou is too much of a risk for the UK anime market when Le Chevalier D'eon got itself released shortly after the R1 releases. Both are a similar in the sense they're French stories (one loosely based on history and one on a novel), Le Chevalier D'eon having a less eye catching title and (in my opinion) not being anywhere near as good as Gankutsuou.

Since an AU distributor picked it up, the show can't be too hard to license for Europe. It's also FAR less risky to release than most of the titles I have on my DVD shelf... I really can't see a good reason for Gankutsuou not to be released when we get a lot of a lesser anime series. Maybe it will forever be a mystery?

I have no idea about the Gankutsuou R1 sales. I'm sure the series wasn't helped by Geneon going under and all stores refusing to the lower the price on the limited stock available.
 
From the popularity of some of the actually successful things over here - Akira, Satoshi Kon movies, some of the popular Japanese horror genre, etc - I'd think being slightly surreal in some way or artistic is an advantage, if played correctly. Texhnolyze? That was too much even for me :/ but it still came out here.

Gankutsuou's probably a grotesquely expensive licence so I wouldn't like to say how well it does as I have no understanding of how expensive it is to put out to begin with. Utawarerumono I will never understand though. It's the kind of show that casuals won't often touch with a barge pole and existing fans likely already imported anyway. I hope it has done well for the companies' sake but I really do think there were better choices available even from their in-house catalogue...

R
 
Hmm this is an interesting thread - I've said a bit on the show in the Beez Thread but here we go again :).

Before I comment at all, let me say that I am both a fan of the original books by Dumas (if you want to brush up on your old French reading skills it's a great way to do it).

I also both admire and adore what Gonzo did when they adapted the novel into an anime series. It's definitely one of those shows just meant for a French dub as well I am sure you can agree!

For the record too, whilst part of the Namco Bandai Group - we don't always release titles from our own companies ^^.

Taking what people have said first to give some answers:

CitizenGeek said:
Nyu said:
If you could guarantee sales between 1000-3000 units then they would probably license it. But it would be price pending.
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Do you mean 1000-3000 sales per volume or for the entire series?
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Depending on license cost anywhere between those numbers at minimum, but also factor in the fact that later volumes will drop in sales, it all depends on the release style of course though (boxset versus standalone).
Rui said:
I appreciate different companies were involved and the licencing alliances which they had would make it easier to bring some shows out than others, but still in a smaller market than most territories I'd imagine the Gankutsuous have a lot more sales potential by an order of magnitude than the game spinoffs or slightly older, cheaply-made, very "Japanese" series. I'm very fond of the latter myself but I can't see them being cash cows for their distributors Sad

I hope some more of the "lost" Geneon shows get picked up here. Or maybe the HD market will get some of the flashier ones, eventually... (debate about blu-ray vs digital distribution beyond the scope of this comment).
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Interestingly Geneon doesn't filter into the show's release or lack thereafter in the UK - it's actually a Gonzo license so unless there's some severely odd twists I'm missing (which is entirely possible) the license won't be sold by Geneon for the UK at least :).

Never underestimate the power of games spin off's. Despite it's questionable quality - Final Fantasy Unlimited still stands as one of ADV UK's best seller's for stand alone volume sales based on the name alone. You can expect the same for Devil May Cry - regardless of how good or bad it is that the sales will be pretty high as it hits a larger audience of people willing to pay (if you meant Japanese romance game spin off's then I retract my point altogether and agree ^^).

Therein lies the problem though, despite what may appear to be a massive audience for the show. If you compare the people who are fans of the original novels and those who buy anime - you'll find the crossover is decidedly limited.

Being not my own title I can't comment on Chevalier's sales more than the fact I didn't see it flying off the shelves at all sadly. Which is neither here nor there as they're two different creatures really I'd argue :). The bigger problem when it comes to sales would be its unique art style, even among fans of anime I know some who can't watch the Gankutsuou without getting sore heads :/. That's a subjective opinion but as a marketer you have to take that in mind, especially with what is very much an art house title.

Frustrating as it is, as I'd considered the sales potential of the show before (and still do for the record), but given the above factors that makes this show a big risk in the eyes of most I would say. If you can't guarantee a good number of fans are willing to buy the show then things get a bit sticky sadly.

That being said - don't despair yet, there's still very much hope for it - but at the same time nothing is set in stone at the moment with anyone! So if you form a group of people willing to buy it, who would put down the cash and make your voice heard then who knows what may happen...

Hope this helps everyone a bit :) *knocks off for the weekend and heads off to relax!*
 
Thanks Andrew, always cool to get this kind of feedback ;) and I did mean the specific genre of male-targeted JP romance games, sorry - I have plenty of general game anime on DVD myself, even weak things like Tekken which I wouldn't have touched without the tie in to one of my favourite game series (I'm shallow!).

It's probably not viable at all in this market, but I am curious - would "pledge" style drives such as the ones run in R1 by TRSI (Gals 2, Emma) and Animeigo (several historical examples) be worth anything in this country to get support for series? I can see problems - even with the massive potential audience in the US, they don't seem to have preorders for Emma flying in - but it might soften the blow of the initial licence/release risk?

I can see problems too though in that companies wouldn't want to take money for preorders if the release wasn't guaranteed, and a no-commitment pledge isn't worth the paper it's written on sometimes :( just a nice thought as seeing those other companies managing it does make me wonder.

For what it's worth I bought the UK version of Chevalier (well, still waiting on the very end) and love it very much too. Don't know how well it's selling as I haven't even seen it on shop shelves locally at all. I had to buy mine online. Such a shame as they did a good job with the quality of the release and it certainly belongs in more shops than some of the shows I've seen in town.

I'll also be marching all my friends out to buy Gunbuster 2 :)

T
 
Rui said:
Thanks Andrew, always cool to get this kind of feedback ;) and I did mean the specific genre of male-targeted JP romance games, sorry - I have plenty of general game anime on DVD myself, even weak things like Tekken which I wouldn't have touched without the tie in to one of my favourite game series (I'm shallow!).
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Whoops! That occurred to me after, sorry about the confusion on my part ^^.

Rui said:
It's probably not viable at all in this market, but I am curious - would "pledge" style drives such as the ones run in R1 by TRSI (Gals 2, Emma) and Animeigo (several historical examples) be worth anything in this country to get support for series? I can see problems - even with the massive potential audience in the US, they don't seem to have preorders for Emma flying in - but it might soften the blow of the initial licence/release risk?
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I'm glad someone has asked about that now, it's one on a personal note that I have considered before - and will no doubt write a piece on at some point. The problems there are severalfold - for one even if a 26 episode series was split as two 13 episode digipacks you would need sales of 3000-4000 per unit to make them profitable, 2500 minimum in all likelihood to make back what you spent.

There are some very nifty dodges that could be considered there though that I have toyed with though. Here's a playful question, does everyone here think they could find that number of people willing to spend £24.99 per digipack to get a release like that?

If you feel a shakey feeling about it- you know how anyone making that plunge feels now! It's a large amount of money to be gambling that such a number of fans (as to make it cost efficient it would have to be aimed specifically at anime fans) would buy the show.

Rui said:
I can see problems too though in that companies wouldn't want to take money for preorders if the release wasn't guaranteed, and a no-commitment pledge isn't worth the paper it's written on sometimes :( just a nice thought as seeing those other companies managing it does make me wonder.
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That's exactly the problem sadly - it's a big gamble and can mean a release will not happen as I discussed above sadly :/.

Rui said:
I'll also be marching all my friends out to buy Gunbuster 2 :)
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Please do! You can get it for a mere £17.99 on Play.com now! That's less than it'd cost to import one volume of the show from the US give or take![/url]
 
Shame about the pitfalls of alternative release ideas - maybe something that we can collectively revisit in the future as distribution systems change over time :(

I'd certainly put down deposit money to help some of my favourite shows come out, but it's also the old problem of "Rui's favourite shows" not necessarily matching the type of show which will actually sell in sensible numbers. I'd sell bodyparts for Rose of Versailles in subbed sets, but I am pretty sure that kind of thing belongs in the realm of fantasy for now ;(

Ah well, I promise if I come into money one day I'll do something mad like sign up to buy 3000 copies of something myself just to jumpstart things...

beez_andrew said:
Please do! You can get it for a mere £17.99 on Play.com now! That's less than it'd cost to import one volume of the show from the US give or take![/url]
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The compact release appeals too, just one splurge and I have it all to enjoy. Great for impatient people with little shelf space like me ;)

As you touched on a few times in various posts, if you can't directly compete with the US (and who can with the recent exchange rates, let alone the other issues?), competing by bringing us the best releases you can is another viable strategy to part us from our cash!

R
 
xX-Sigil-XxxX-Otaku-Xx said:
Off topic but should I see gunbuster before gunbuster 2?
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They have completely different characters and I think the sequel is more like a spiritual remake (with totally different characters and scenarios but similar themes) than an actual sequel; you should be ok to go without seeing the original.

But you should pick up the original one day if you can, I really enjoyed it :)

R
 
Rui said:
Shame about the pitfalls of alternative release ideas - maybe something that we can collectively revisit in the future as distribution systems change over time :(

I'd certainly put down deposit money to help some of my favourite shows come out, but it's also the old problem of "Rui's favourite shows" not necessarily matching the type of show which will actually sell in sensible numbers. I'd sell bodyparts for Rose of Versailles in subbed sets, but I am pretty sure that kind of thing belongs in the realm of fantasy for now ;(

Ah well, I promise if I come into money one day I'll do something mad like sign up to buy 3000 copies of something myself just to jumpstart things...
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It is an interesting model for a release though and believe me I am considering it as a viable one or not. Over at Beez we're actually considering a LOT of big things right now, hopefully some of which I can talk about before the end of the year. Maybe even as soon as London Expo May or Amecon. Sufficed to say I've been examining a lot of different models and seeing what we can do with it :)*.

As for Rose of Versaille - I know what you mean! There's a relatively cheap release of it in France if you can understand the dub etc though :).

* Sadly doesn't relate to the title in question here at all though :(.

Rui said:
As you touched on a few times in various posts, if you can't directly compete with the US (and who can with the recent exchange rates, let alone the other issues?), competing by bringing us the best releases you can is another viable strategy to part us from our cash!

R
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Definitely - and we're going to keep talking to everyone and work out best we can what kind of release models everybody likes and is willing to pay for from now on :). Inevitably this may be a bumpy road - but we're aiming to follow it through!
 
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