Eva 2.whatever (Not as good the second time?)

[Ark]

I'm sure a lot of you have have watched Evangelion: You Can Not Advance on dvd/BR by now. Does anyone find that it's not as good as you originally thought it was with successive viewings. When I first watched it I was totally blown away by the battle sequences and with what happens to Asuka. Now though, I'm seeing a lot of problems with it.

Firstly, there's way too much religious dialogue crammed into this film whereas in the series it was naturally spread out. There's also very little context for most of those things that are said and they end up just sounding ridiculous. Also, Asuka's character development is way too rushed, and there isn't enough detail given on her background even though it's presented as something significant to her development. Lastly, the final 20 minutes of the film are just ridiculous. It's like the ep 19 & 23 battles combined with the beginning of instrumentality all crammed into 20 minutes.

Anyone else feel the same way?

 

[Joshawott]

If anything, after all the hype etc, Evangelion 1.11: You Are (Not) Alone was a much bigger let down; it just seemed like they tried to cram too much into too little time. I wouldn't be able to sit down and watch any of the Rebuild movies again; they all feel too damn condensed.

I liked how 2.22 You Can (Not) Advance was based a lot more on the characters themselves this time around. Although I did feel that Asuka and Mari could have done a lot more in terms of the story. I will give the film credit for that (particularly Rei and Gendo - although Gendo meeting with Shinji at the start was a wtf? moment).

The problem with Evangelion as a whole is it crams in way too much religious references. Y'know, why do Angels have to explode in a cross shape anyway? I do agree with the random religious-sounding statements though; it sounds like the series is trying way too hard to be seen as 'deep'; yet if you take away all the obvious religious crap, Evangelion could still be a very good action/mech franchise.

 

[Ark]

The problem with Evangelion as a whole is it crams in way too much religious references. Y'know, why do Angels have to explode in a cross shape anyway? I do agree with the random religious-sounding statements though; it sounds like the series is trying way too hard to be seen as 'deep'; yet if you take away all the obvious religious crap, Evangelion could still be a very good action/mech franchise.

There's a difference between using religious symbols/pronouns and actually having whole theological conversations with no context provided what so ever. I don't think the series ever did that.

 

[Reaper gI]

There's a difference between using religious symbols/pronouns and actually having whole theological conversations with no context provided what so ever. I don't think the series ever did that.

Yes it did, especialy in End of Evangelion. Seele always used tons of judeo-christian dogma

The whole point is just ignore them and the Evas and take them for granted. The story is about the characters and their psychology, the rest is just there to look cool.

I also prefered it second time though, not being as distracted by the flashy animation so much, and being able to focus on the characters better.

 

[Jaymii]

I haven't seen 2 yet but having entire conversations, that by the sounds of it are not tied to the characters, is quite a serious detriment to a film. Why excuse it for doing something stupidly?

 

[Ark]

Yes it did, especialy in End of Evangelion. Seele always used tons of judeo-christian dogma

You're right but there it was actually appropriate given the events happening and it had context. Most of the series featured very little dialogue of this nature.

Also if you mean Jewish & Christian, say Jewish & Christian. "Judeo-Christian" doesn't mean anything. Sorry to nitpick but that's kind of a soap box issue for me.

 

[Reaper gI]

Yes it did, especialy in End of Evangelion. Seele always used tons of judeo-christian dogma

You're right but there it was actually appropriate given the events happening and it had context. Most of the series featured very little dialogue of this nature.

Also if you mean Jewish & Christian, say Jewish & Christian. "Judeo-Christian" doesn't mean anything. Sorry to nitpick but that's kind of a soap box issue for me.

Would messianic religion serve better.

Judeo-christian referes to the bits shared between Christianity and Judeism. It's been in common use for over 70 years, quit complaining about neologia.

 

[Ark]

Yes it did, especialy in End of Evangelion. Seele always used tons of judeo-christian dogma

You're right but there it was actually appropriate given the events happening and it had context. Most of the series featured very little dialogue of this nature.

Also if you mean Jewish & Christian, say Jewish & Christian. "Judeo-Christian" doesn't mean anything. Sorry to nitpick but that's kind of a soap box issue for me.

Would messianic religion serve better.

Judeo-christian referes to the bits shared between Christianity and Judeism. It's been in common use for over 70 years, quit complaining about neologia.

The thing is they don't actually share that much except on a superficial level. By contrast Christianity has been heavily influenced by Platonic philosophy but we don't hear the term Platonic-Christian used. I think initially it was just a term of political correctness so that Christians could talk about their religion without scaring Jews in the post-holocaust era. My problem with it is that currently it's generally used as a propaganda term by right-wingers to describe whatever policies or philosophy they currently propound.

 

[Mutsumi]

I'm sure a lot of you have have watched Evangelion: You Can Not Advance on dvd/BR by now.

I'm waiting for them to finish the series before I start it tbh.

 

[Reaper gI]

The thing is they don't actually share that much except on a superficial level. By contrast Christianity has been heavily influenced by Platonic philosophy but we don't hear the term Platonic-Christian used. I think initially it was just a term of political correctness so that Christians could talk about their religion without scaring Jews in the post-holocaust era. My problem with it is that currently it's generally used as a propaganda term by right-wingers to describe whatever policies or philosophy they currently propound.

Nope it's had that right wing slanted menaing pre-holocuaust or at least before it becoming public knowledge.
Original use was Jews who'd converted to christianity. Jewish- Christian has meant the shared belife/dogma set for much longer, it just got abreviated.

 

[Ark]

Nope it's had that right wing slanted menaing pre-holocuaust or at least before it becoming public knowledge.

I know this thread is going off on a complete tangent but I'd really appreciate some examples of the above please.

 

[Sparrowsabre7]

On a vaguely related note. I like how in Death Note the apple is a recurring theme and lots of people attribute it to original sin etc but the creator just thought it looked cool (of course he could have been being facaetious (sp))

 

[Reaper gI]

Nope it's had that right wing slanted menaing pre-holocuaust or at least before it becoming public knowledge.

I know this thread is going off on a complete tangent but I'd really appreciate some examples of the above please.

Wiki says

The present meaning of "Judeo-Christian" tregarding ethics first appeared in print on July 27, 1939, with the phrase "the Judaeo-Christian scheme of morals" in the New English Weekly

cited from:
http://books.google.cz/books?id=7zpSvtOak7AC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28#v=onepage&q&f=false
It's by the Jewish Americans to combat anti-semtism in the US.
Rather than being slightly later and sympathetic to their mistreatment after that became more apparent.

 

[Ark]

Nope it's had that right wing slanted menaing pre-holocuaust or at least before it becoming public knowledge.

I know this thread is going off on a complete tangent but I'd really appreciate some examples of the above please.

Wiki says

The present meaning of "Judeo-Christian" tregarding ethics first appeared in print on July 27, 1939, with the phrase "the Judaeo-Christian scheme of morals" in the New English Weekly

cited from:
http://books.google.cz/books?id=7zpSvtOak7AC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28#v=onepage&q&f=false
It's by the Jewish Americans to combat anti-semtism in the US.
Rather than being slightly later and sympathetic to their mistreatment after that became more apparent.

I should have said post-Weimar period. Basically Hitler coming to power and afterwards. Also, that quote is kind of making my point. There it's being used in an attempt to be inclusive, whereas now it's generally used to exclude others. My point still stands that it doesn't have any real meaning.

 

[ayase]

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You can't say I only do de-railing.

...there's way too much religious dialogue crammed into this film whereas in the series it was naturally spread out. There's also very little context for most of those things that are said and they end up just sounding ridiculous. Also, Asuka's character development is way too rushed, and there isn't enough detail given on her background even though it's presented as something significant to her development. Lastly, the final 20 minutes of the film are just ridiculous. It's like the ep 19 & 23 battles combined with the beginning of instrumentality all crammed into 20 minutes.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Watched my BD last night for the first time since seeing 2.0 at Leeds Film Festival last year (and I saw so many films that day they were all pretty blurred by the end - all that really stuck in my head was the Redline soundtrack). I don't think there's any more pseudo-religious chit-chat as a proportion of 2.22 than there was of the original series. That part of the Eva world was never much more than a leitmotif anyway. A unique one to be sure, but no deeper than the standard mecha fare.

As for character development and pacing, I'm of the opinion that these films act more as an addendum to Eva than an alternative to it. I would probably think they were a little fast paced and lacking in character development if the series didn't exist, but I don't think they're really meant to be viewed without having seen the original first. Not that I'm claiming any official line on that, but if they had wanted to make a new standalone Eva series (which could be viewed without any prior knowledge) they could have made another 26 ep. TV series. I think the films are intended for existing fans with their memory of the series to refer to (the Kaworu moon scenes, for example, would be so much WTF to anyone new to the franchise).

As for my more general thoughts on the film (here seems as good a place as any to put them) I'm still concerned for Asuka's future role, as I have been since Mari was first revealed. But hey, I like Mari more than I thought I would. It's obvious they worked hard to endear her to fans by making her a bit different to the other characters but still giving her a distinct style and personality. The animation is... jaw-droppingly beautiful. It looks so much more solid and hand-crafted than most modern computer-produced anime. The characters are still themselves, even if they have had their sharp edges buffed a little - I find Rei more likeable in Rebuild than I did (not that I ever really disliked her, I just found her immensely frustrating and wanted to slap her occasionally*) and I've heard people express similar sentiments about Shinji. I thought it was pretty well put together for almost two hours of non-stop Evangelion, and I actually can't wait to see what happens next.


*you can't tell I'm an Asuka fan, can you?

 

[Vashdaman]

Oh my word Shinji was such an annoying character in the series. I don't actually really remember much from the show apart from that Shinji kid constantly whining, feeling sorry for himself and being bullied by that annoying red haired girl.

I have little desire to watch these "rebuilds," but I imagine the two main things they have to change are Shinji and what was officially "worst.ending.ever".

Still I suppose I can't be too harsh to EVA, i mean some aspects of it were pretty good (mainly the dark vibe of it, also calling the baddies "angels" was pretty different) and its still more tolerable (just) than any Gundam...ever.

 

[ilmaestro]

Since there has already been discussion about the characters and themes in the reworking, I would like to add that as an action film (which the film is just as much as it is anything else), I don't think the movie feels diminished in any way on repeat viewings.