Crunchyroll and the use of AI in anime subtitles

The end of anime?

Well it is another nail in the coffin from my perspective. Crunchyroll wants to sack its translators and use AI for subtitling instead.


Just no!

Sick of seeing all this A.I. **** everywhere, wish it would die out.

And with how the subs turned out for that one anime a season or two ago it was very clear they've been testing it and it was absolute crap.
 
The end of anime?

Well it is another nail in the coffin from my perspective. Crunchyroll wants to sack its translators and use AI for subtitling instead.


Just no!
If it results in more accurate subtitles then I'm in favour of it. Run the script through a translator and then have a proof reader check it for any issues. That would be far quicker than translating from spoken word and less likely for certain people to put their own opinions into the dialogue.
 
I remember when Kaze ran the UK release of Bakuman’s French subtitles through Google translate and the result was a complete shower. Never got past part 1. Sony is to anime as Elon Musk is to Twitter. The reverse Midas touch.
 
If it results in more accurate subtitles then I'm in favour of it. Run the script through a translator and then have a proof reader check it for any issues. That would be far quicker than translating from spoken word and less likely for certain people to put their own opinions into the dialogue.
Most often this results in the company paying less as the translator is "correcting" the MTL which usually involves throwing the MTL in the bin and doing a normal translation anyway. It actually takes more work to correct this crap than the normal workflow.
 
"More accurate subtitles" Did you not see the debacle with the 1st episode of Yuzuki Family recently?

Yes, Crunchyroll didn't create those English subtitles, they had been provided by the production company.

As I noted, it wouldn't be from AI straight to release, instead it should be looked over by a proof reader for quality control.

I work for the biggest science publisher in the world, we have been utilizing automatic translation for author papers for a while.
 
Yes, Crunchyroll didn't create those English subtitles, they had been provided by the production company.

As I noted, it wouldn't be from AI straight to release, instead it should be looked over by a proof reader for quality control.

I work for the biggest science publisher in the world, we have been utilizing automatic translation for author papers for a while.
Not the same thing. Academia, especially science isn‘t a place for idiom, cultural localisation, humour, emotion, character voices, basically the creativity required to localise a piece of fiction. That is art. That is human.
 
Not the same thing. Academia, especially science isn‘t a place for idiom, cultural localisation, humour, emotion, character voices, basically the creativity required to localise a piece of fiction. That is art. That is human.
That depends on if you want the humour and such to be localised rather than just translated. Personally I wasn't a fan of Sentai having the characters say "Sus" around 5x in a recent episode of Gushing over magical girls.
 
That depends on if you want the humour and such to be localised rather than just translated. Personally I wasn't a fan of Sentai having the characters say "Sus" around 5x in a recent episode of Gushing over magical girls.
When you‘re translating a script there has to be a degree of localisation, otherwise anything culturally idiomatic will be lost as gibberish. This is writing. The WGA in the US were just on strike for five months over just this issue, preventing AI from destroying their jobs.

Humans aren‘t perfect, translations can get too localised, or inappropriately referential to local pop culture, I’ve even called out some subs for translating Japanese English into American English, like rucksack to backpack, because Americans don‘t use rucksack. But the alternative will be a disaster
 
The end of anime?

Well it is another nail in the coffin from my perspective. Crunchyroll wants to sack its translators and use AI for subtitling instead.


Just no!

As someone who has tinkered with Whisper Desktop quite a bit to test auto transcription and translation for work (mainly on commercials and alike), I would say that if that's anything to go on then we are certainly not on that level yet with high-context languages like Japanese or Chinese. Most of the time it seems like the translation has a hard time understanding who and what a particular statement refers to, generating lines like "You're too poor for that since I got no money or income" or "Your mother is coming, and I haven't seen myself for quite some time". What @xp_version1 reports regarding the Demon Slayer subs is also suspiciously similar to the other problem I've encountered, with names ranging from the correct Yuna to Juno to Jonas depending on who says it and in which intonation. All that is even before we go into the more poetic statements that high-context languages love to use when conveying emotional or "deeper" experiences. Those become completely jumbled beyond belief, even when they are commercials that are desperately pushing some low brand soap, lol.

Granted my computer is not the optimal one to run the program on (though I can run the large Whisper model without major hiccups) and Crunchy likely will a develop more specialised translation model to exclusively use for anime that will be better and more efficient, but I still mostly got déjà vu of the old machine-generated subs from like Hong Kong that used to swirl around to shows like Ginga Sengoku Gunyuuden Rai or Musashi no Ken back in the day. That is to say, they are in dire need of proofreading from professional translators to make sense after a couple of episodes, especially when jokes/statements with three or four meanings are being translated.
 
That depends on if you want the humour and such to be localised rather than just translated. Personally I wasn't a fan of Sentai having the characters say "Sus" around 5x in a recent episode of Gushing over magical girls.

I don't see what the problem is? If that is how a character of applicable age and culture would speak in English, then it would be correct. Like when Osaka accents are made to sound like a Southern US drawl. Its making the idea applicable to someone who's understanding is in English. Just because you don't speak that way, doesn't mean that character wouldn't in English.
 
I don't see what the problem is? If that is how a character of applicable age and culture would speak in English, then it would be correct. Like when Osaka accents are made to sound like a Southern US drawl. Its making the idea applicable to someone who's understanding is in English. Just because you don't speak that way, doesn't mean that character wouldn't in English.
Sus became a popular phrase in recent times due the game 'Among us' and anyone saying that frequently is more than likely referencing that. However that game already fell out of popularity almost a year ago, so the phrase and reference is already dated. Can you imagine coming back to this in years and having that really dated game reference?

I would rather they actually subtitled what the characters were saying instead of inserting dated references. Do you recall when Funimation inserted Gamergate into Prison School, I don't want this form of "localisation".
 
I agree that machine translations really isn't there yet and would prefer a human touch to ensure accuracy and quality. But I can't deny that rogue localizers who purposefully operate in bad faith are due a karma smiting imo.
 
It'll happen eventually whether people like it or not. When in human history has the human cost of people's livelihoods ever been valued over cost cutting with technology? RIP to translators, but you're only going the way of those displaced by the power loom, the industrial robot, the automated phone system etc. The machines will come for everyone soon enough.

Probably human translated fansubs will keep on being a thing, and if machine translations are bad people will turn to those.

Sony is to anime as Elon Musk is to Twitter.
Anime was always awful and Sony have just made it an ever-so-slightly different flavour of awful?
 
For me, increasingly getting closer to passing the threshold of bs (there's been suggestions of post editing that other services have been using). The probable threshold of being done is when the performances are fake, in whatever language is available. And when it's both (both original and localised market), it's a waste of my time, I have no interest in generated slop.

That also being said, outside of some cases and issues, I generally ignore the repeated examples as the relevance is pretty meaningless now due to most being old or used by people operating in bad faith or have curious hangups, even in just not punched up translation subtitles.

I have a bad feeling about where everything is going though, I just have to be more picky, already there with video games because of similar concerns around technology and seeing what's going on before trying
 
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I suppose at least before this came into effect for everything I could just stop watching with subs, which is a luxury I did not think I would ever have to rely on as the anime/manga market grew that's for sure. Certainly not a huge fan of this, even if I do sometimes have issues with how something has been localised I'd still prefer an actual human working on something that needs a lot more nuance and understanding than this tech can currently provide.
 
I watch absolutely everything with subs and I'm not especially picky about the quality (I've never minded dubtitles even though they send a lot of people into a seething rage). Having said that, the problem here is that the AI subs are exceptionally poor quality to the point of actively detracting from the show, so it's disrespectful of Crunchyroll to spoil fans' viewing experiences when they're effectively a monopoly on the content. I suspect that a lot of them think that the dub is the 'real' way to enjoy a show and subs are a stop-gap while the dub is in production, but for a lot of us a dub is unwatchable and they're devaluing their service to their own audience.

Having said that, a lot of human-translated stuff is bad too. Square Enix's recent (and not-so-recent) game 'adaptations' are just as horrifically interpretive as the infamous Working Designs scripts of yore and while some people love their (manmade) 'translations' and put the localisation teams on a pedestal, I can't stand their reimaginings of the original context. Subtitles are derivative works in my mind, with delivery of the translation being far more important than the subtitled script being an independent work of art in itself; they're a tool - albeit a tool I heavily rely upon.

In that respect I view it as different to a book or manga translation - but maybe that's my privilege talking because I am also able to crank up the volume and listen out for the original vocal performances for context cues, which is not so easy in manga (and outright impossible in text alone). In principle I wouldn't mind everything being subtitled by AI in a perfect world, especially if it meant getting subtitles (in a multitude of languages) on everything instead of only the most popular languages being served, or entire shows being subtitle-less on streaming services because the UK doesn't care about people who can't hear well. Or subtitle tracks on English language content being stripped out for the UK release of discs as a cost-saving exercise even when the subs exist in the US. Heck, actual Japanese subtitles would be really helpful and we seldom ever get those. We genuinely need AI to improve for this stuff for the sake of accessibility, because anyone who has watched something fast-paced or accented with YouTube's auto subtitles knows that machine subtitling is still horrendously bad.

But that's not what's happening here, and it's clearly just another example of Crunchyroll cutting corners in bad faith and using paying customers as test subjects. I wish that all of the content would go on all of the services so that each could compete on the quality of their platform instead of this nonsensical mess of exclusivity and stupidity.

(On the bright side if they get really bad it's probably possible to get them in trouble for not providing adequate support for hard of hearing folks. The US is way better about that than we are, which is why everything there has closed captions in the first place. )

R
 
Sus became a popular phrase in recent times due the game 'Among us' and anyone saying that frequently is more than likely referencing that. However that game already fell out of popularity almost a year ago, so the phrase and reference is already dated. Can you imagine coming back to this in years and having that really dated game reference?

I would rather they actually subtitled what the characters were saying instead of inserting dated references. Do you recall when Funimation inserted Gamergate into Prison School, I don't want this form of "localisation".

All subtitles will have references of the time its released. The original Japanese language will have speech and cultural references and turns of phrase. Are you expecting translations to be constantly updated to the Kings English of the year when you're watching it?

So a show from the early 2020s can't use 'sus'? Should shows from the 80s never translate something as 'dude'? Or 90s never use 'cool'? Those are dated references.
 
You are conflating the issue. What matters is if the the original dialogue said something of equivalent meaning. Frieren is also an anime from the 2020s would you be happy to see the subtitles have her refer to the demons as 'sus' or have Fern say she is 'on fleek'? Himmel can talk about his 'drip' when he's posing for the statues. This is what people want right?
 
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