Create A Battle System

N

Nemphtis

Hunter
Many RPGs stick to the same battle system, while only adding a couple of minor extras so people don't come out and say it's a complete duplicate of another RPG. However sometimes a game comes along which tries to add something new, but still slightly familiar, some are turn-based while others are more action oriented. The challenge in my topic is simple, I want you guys to come up with your own battle system and describe to us what it would be like, and how it would work. You don't have to get into extreme detail if you don't want to, it's all down to how enthusiastic you are about the topic.

Points to possibly work on:

  • Will you have random encounters?
  • Would you go for a turn-based or action oriented system?
  • What small extras could you add to further enhance it?
  • Will you incorporate magic, and if so how will it be used / set up?
  • Will your characters have special attacks during battle, like Limit Break or Trance?

So go on, describe what you'd create and impress us with something new.
 
Taking inspiration from rhythmic puzzle games, I'd like to see a battle system which has a musical twist. What if critical hits weren't based on luck, and what if you didn't need to 'charge' an attack for it to be more powerful? What if all the player needed to do was hit their opponents to the rhythm of the music, and the more they hit them without missing a beat the more their combo shot up? Yup, that means I would choose an action oriented battle system, and reward players who time their attacks with the music.

I would design it so this is a double edged sword. Sure your attacks do more damage when you hit to the beat, but so does your opponent's. This in turn will make the action gameplay a little less about but mashing and more about timing, both you and your opponent will be careful when they attack and it will be fairly easy to predict when your opponent will strike. It's not so easy though, players can still strike any time they want, but this won't do much damage yet the impact of your attack will help stun your enemy briefly so you can land an attack with the next beat.

I would also implement magic in the same way. Magic will be categorised into instruments, with common sounds being weak but constantly being on the soundtrack, while the more powerful attacks are instruments which rarely get used, but once linked, they will be far more devastating. There will be no random encounters, enemies will be on your screen and you can engage in them at any point. Your attacks will be pretty basic, a quick attack is fast but weak, a charged attack is five times more powerful but much harder to time the charging with the beat as you'll have to think ahead. Spells are your long range attacks.

Another hardcore twist in my game is death, which can be your best friend. To cast a revival spell, you would need to wait for an instrument which is rarely used in the background music to come up, however if you knew when it was coming up you could allow the enemy to kill you and get yourself revived shortly after. This has an advantage since revivals return all your HP, so if your health was low this would be the best way to heal yourself as I would not include healing items in my game.

That's all the details I'm bothered to provide now, but I hope it served as a nice example.
 
Thought it would be easier, but now I put my mind to it, it's hard to think of something completely different to what's allready around now. The wierd thing is, I thought about fighting to the music whilst reading your first thread.

Right, I'll just throw this one out there. How about a game where fighting was based on movment instead of sound? Stay with me for a minute.... In a fight you had no help from pre-warnings or signals but had to rely on the stance and movments of the enemy alone. Therefore making the game more based on skill than the equipment you happened to have bought from the lepper stall in the market. Better equipment will always help, but without being good at reading movments, it would all result in squat.

So that it wouldn't be all too same-ey, as the game progressed, enemy would become faster and faster. You only be able to keep up if you had a power level comprable to theirs. The higher your level, the faster you become, but because we're not all super human, the difference would be the movments of the bad guys and your surroundings. Almost bullet-time you mite say. So, really it's seems like you don't change but everything else slows down. By the end of the game you'd be able to move like lightning. I'd think that'd be awsome. XD

Hmmm, well I'll leave that there for now. Hope I didn't waffle on too much, heh. Not sure what anyone else thinks of this idea but always open to comments.

Nemphtis, I love the idea of playing to the music. Not only would it be fun, it'd look cool and sound great. Why haven't these ideas already been put into production?
Guess everyone just likes to play it safe. :roll:
 
You know I wouldn't mind seeing a game where everything is just like an RPG, but when you enter a battle system it turns into a beat'em up between your character and the enemy. So basically you can see the enemies on the battlefield, yet when you engage with them it turns into something like Street Fighter. I suppose it would be similar to the battle system in the 'Tales of...' series but the one I have in mind would be a little more advanced. Firstly I would replace magic with combos, instead of learning new spells your player learns new combos and moves to execute during combat. I think it would make a pretty nice game, if executed properly.
 
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Instead of using magic, your charcters strenghs and weaknesses would be determined with speed, defence, endurance etc. Of course a Street Fighter hadouken wouldn't go a miss like.
:D
There's always going to be a game where there are going to be similarities. That's unavoidable now. It's more down to how the game is made and appearance. Of cource I'd sacrifice appearnce for game play anyday. Like you said, Nemphtis, if it was executed properly.

I just had an idea (well... it's most likely been done before). During the game when entered into a battle, the game isn't just limited to the two opposing characters. Anyone witnessing the fight can run over and join in. This could result in some good brawls. Also, to make it fairer, if it was 2v1 the single player would get an adrenaline bonus making him that little bit better to take on two men. In 3v1 the same would happen only a little more, and so on. So if you got jumped by five guys you could boost up and be able to take them on.

There's probably some flaws in there, but I'm gonna put it down to flu. At work sick and dreaming for my bed. :cry:
 
Yeah the problem with that system would be the simple fact that if a hundred guys jumped you, the game would give you a boost allowing you to take them on. This means there's no difficulty, because no matter how tough it gets the game will even the odds to your favour again. Then again, it's not really numbers that make an impact of difficulty in an RPG most of the time, it's the enemy's HP and attacks, at least that's what makes a boss battle so tough.
 
Heh, I told you there were flaws. Yeah, I get it now. That would be a bit pointless like. Still be fun to throw a hundred guys around though. With the idea of combos allready mentioned (Nemphtis), it would be cool to learn defensive combos too. Meaning that if someone came along with a kick arse move, you couldn't defend it properly (if at all) without learning the combo yourself. Plus, the more times you face a certain combo, the more likely your character is to learn it.

I can't decide what the best angle for a battle system? Would it be behind, side view (like a figther game) or perhaps no particular angle (which if not coded correctly could lead to tree/ rocks getting in line of vision. What would be your favourite battle angle?
 
As a basic idea my favourite system is the one found in Jade Empire. Real time combat, but while it has a targetting system it's if some one else gets in the way they get hit. There are varoius styles of combat, (martial, weapon, magic, support and transformation), and each style has a normal, power and area attack. These attacks as well as switching etween styles gives a wide range of combos and allowing you to pick your personal styles. If you could add something like Oblivion's direction attacks (eg: forward + attack = lunge, back + attack= chop)
My biggest gripe about turn based games is that there is usually no skill involved, and the barest little need for tactics, just line up your most powerful attacks or the right type (water spell vs a fire creature). Worst offender was Kotor for this, first a stun power or grenade, then attack with which ever feat you are strongest in (Power attack) until stun wears off or you need healing... repeat as neccessary.
 
Jade Empire's battle system was made very interesting thanks to the fighting styles they implemented. However, I was very disappointed when I realised each fighting style was pretty much just two moves, and nothing more. It would have been great if the fighting styles were far more fleshed out, giving you at least ten moves so you really feel like it's a fighting style.
 
I could come up with something original buuuuuuuuuuuuut im feeling too lazy to write lots right now. :D

Personally some sort of cross between the materia system of VII, the weapon customisation of X and turn based combat (also of X) would work pretty damn well.
The problem with the FF series is that status changes never get a chance to lift off. By the time you've gained the attacks they never work on any of the monsters you're currently fighting. I reckon if they stamped up the effectiveness of status changes and fiddled with the element system we would see quite a refined system,
Im not sure if adding in real time stuff in RPGs will go down amazingly. I know i prefer to chill out with a rpg - ive got shooters to get my adrenaline pumping, all i want in a rpg is a nice relaxed atmosphere where you can take your time to do the quests, level up your character and plan your attacks.

Although combat is inevitably a large part in RPGs i dont think the combat needs to be fiddled with to a great degree, especially regarding button mashing. Half the fun in RPGs i find is levelling up your party to be the meanest mofo around and trounce the final boss in a couple of hits :D

Ill see if i come up with something half-original when i wake up a bit more :)
 
Liquid Skin said:
Im not sure if adding in real time stuff in RPGs will go down amazingly. I know i prefer to chill out with a rpg - ive got shooters to get my adrenaline pumping, all i want in a rpg is a nice relaxed atmosphere where you can take your time to do the quests, level up your character and plan your attacks.
Although combat is inevitably a large part in RPGs i dont think the combat needs to be fiddled with to a great degree, especially regarding button mashing. Half the fun in RPGs i find is levelling up your party to be the meanest mofo around and trounce the final boss in a couple of hits :D
:)
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Thing is I like the sense of urgencey that real time combat gives, rather that the 'lets read a book in the middle of a battle with a demi-god' (which i have done :roll: ) approach that turn based systems have.

Wonder where all you guys stand on class vs stat based characters and leveling up. I prefer a classless system where abilities are based on stats rather than which class (rouge, mage warrior) you choose. It allows a lot more freedom to create your character rather than pigeon holing them. As for leveling up if you use an ability you get better at it rather tha if you beat someone up you can become a smooth talker.
 
hopeful_monster said:
Liquid Skin said:
Im not sure if adding in real time stuff in RPGs will go down amazingly. I know i prefer to chill out with a rpg - ive got shooters to get my adrenaline pumping, all i want in a rpg is a nice relaxed atmosphere where you can take your time to do the quests, level up your character and plan your attacks.
Although combat is inevitably a large part in RPGs i dont think the combat needs to be fiddled with to a great degree, especially regarding button mashing. Half the fun in RPGs i find is levelling up your party to be the meanest mofo around and trounce the final boss in a couple of hits :D
:)
Click to expand...
Thing is I like the sense of urgencey that real time combat gives, rather that the 'lets read a book in the middle of a battle with a demi-god' (which i have done :roll: ) approach that turn based systems have.

Wonder where all you guys stand on class vs stat based characters and leveling up. I prefer a classless system where abilities are based on stats rather than which class (rouge, mage warrior) you choose. It allows a lot more freedom to create your character rather than pigeon holing them. As for leveling up if you use an ability you get better at it rather tha if you beat someone up you can become a smooth talker.
Click to expand...

Hehe alrighty, each to their own. Onto class based stuff im kinda divided. If done well i like either method. I mean the benefit of having a specific class makes the game more tactical - you HAVE to use a specific character when the situation demands for it rather than just having an uber jack of all trades. Whats more it makes them more vulnerable to attack - thus stamping up the difficulty.

With that said i do enjoy the freedom of creating a character and it does demand a certain "long-time plan" when it comes to levelling. In X for example one of the bosses was nigh impossible without having hastega so you had to make it your priority to get a character to that position as soon as possible. Both systems have been ruined imo - FF III was absolutely dire when it came to using the class system and likewise in XII and to a lesser degree X you just made it your prioirity to getting all characters equipped with hastega, full life and curaga - that was it, no challenge at all.

Branching off briefly the loss of a class system does affect the storyline and character development. After all if the character has no distinguishing characteristics other than their image and/or limit break you cant really connect with them. XII was dire for this but X, VII and VIII managed to deal with it by actually having a good plot and diverse weapons. You could give barret the same materia as anyone else but you still needed him for flying enemies after all
 
Yeah, it always makes me chuckle knowing that the final boss feels so amusing thanks to the turn-based battle system because I can go take a leak and eat some Pizza while Sephiroth just waits for my next attack as if he were a gentleman. Then you fight Sephiroth on Kingdom Hearts and I don't know about the rest of you but he kicked the **** out of me the first few times.
 
hopeful_monster said:
... after rereading thread while sober and caffinated, get the impression the thread shout be called "Create A Battle System for Final Fantasy .
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Its the only RPG that matters :p

Besides FF is the most generic run-of-the-mill RPGs - everyone can relate to at least one of them.

On topic i'd like to see the ability to target specific body parts a la Fallout in more RPGs. Although the combat system in general didnt light any fires for me i did like the whole "you hit x in the leg for massive damage, crippling it" Intergrating that into a fully 3D RPG would certainly give you more satisfaction and would no doubt please you hyperactive "real time" players........you freaks :D
 
Liquid Skin said:
On topic i'd like to see the ability to target specific body parts a la Fallout in more RPGs. Although the combat system in general didnt light any fires for me i did like the whole "you hit x in the leg for massive damage, crippling it" Intergrating that into a fully 3D RPG would certainly give you more satisfaction and would no doubt please you hyperactive "real time" players........you freaks :D
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Neverwinter nights had a system kinda like that. you could choose an 'Aim' feat and hit either leg (= 1/2 movement) or arm (drop weapon), with all critical hits being those to the head ( therefore helmets prevent critical hits).
 
hopeful_monster said:
... after rereading thread while sober and caffinated, get the impression the thread shout be called "Create A Battle System for Final Fantasy .
Click to expand...

Not really, the battle system I proposed can work for any RPG. I also make a point to look beyond Final Fantasy when thinking about the RPG genre, as although it's a good franchise it's not healthy to stick to one series and expect it to serve all your gaming demands. As a matter of fact, it's quite the opposite. I want people to try and come up with battle systems which are as unique as possible, so anything but Final Final.
 
If I created a battle system, It be this...

It will still be Turn based, but with many twists. As you approach an enemy, you will engage in battle. But we won't be having any enviroment changes (like CT)

But everything is real time, and will happen very quickly. So everything in realtime is included in this. Many acrobatic moves, and you got to time it (like dodging it). But if you try casting a magic at the wrong time, the enemy will attack you, backfiring your magic. The enviroment will be very important and crucial to the battle, as you can like push them in a hole, or chop a tree down to damage your enemies.

Also, I like to include the wait time for healing. One of your allies will heal their partner, so like putting bandages on them. Its up to you to defend them from greater damages, as attacking them during healing time will do twice as much.

Look, So many new things, and its all in Turn Based. Who said turn based was last year is so wrong in so many ways.
 
Chrono Demon said:
If I created a battle system, It be this...

It will still be Turn based, but with many twists. As you approach an enemy, you will engage in battle. But we won't be having any enviroment changes (like CT)

But everything is real time, and will happen very quickly. So everything in realtime is included in this. Many acrobatic moves, and you got to time it (like dodging it). But if you try casting a magic at the wrong time, the enemy will attack you, backfiring your magic. The enviroment will be very important and crucial to the battle, as you can like push them in a hole, or chop a tree down to damage your enemies.

Also, I like to include the wait time for healing. One of your allies will heal their partner, so like putting bandages on them. Its up to you to defend them from greater damages, as attacking them during healing time will do twice as much.

Look, So many new things, and its all in Turn Based. Who said turn based was last year is so wrong in so many ways.
Click to expand...

Your game wins just because I can chop down trees to damage enemies.

TIMBERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
 
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