a War to wake up society

Y

Yuvie

Student Council President
Forgive me for this slightly unusual & speculative post. It's something I've been thinking about for some time and when looking at it at first glance, it's a horrible concept. However, just to throw out a question to anyone who cares, when thinking in depth about it, is it actually something that could be made justifiable? Especially when you look at how our nation's society has become. Maybe it's not such a crazy thought to have? The involvement & death of many people in society, just to wake society up to how precious life really is and what it's like to truly struggle again. A good old fashioned, ground pitched battle.

War breaks society apart but doesn't the end eventually bring us all closer together? Maybe people will learn to trust and live with eachother a little bit better than they do at the moment.

War destroys possessions & economies but when the dust settles, it's a chance to re-build from anew, from the ground up.

War also ends many lives but it wakes everyone up to just how special being alive truly is and gives us a chance to really cherish life and the life of others. Maybe then we'll actually learn to love our neighbour as a famous text tells us we should do. It makes us appreciate the simple things in life and not just what possessions we own.

War creates heroes and villains. It also creates history in a world which doesn't seem to have a lot to write about in the history books these days. Unfortunately, it can also create romance.

Okay, so that's it. Before you start cursing, I wouldn't in any way condone starting a war just for the sake of a kind-of social enlightenment. It's just a discussion point which I find interesting as a person who enjoys a bit of philosophical thought and especially the philosophy of war.

Come on then, fire me down for my stupid thoughts.
 
The thing is, warfare has become so sopisticated that it no longer involves nearly as many people. The equipment soldiers use is so expensive that we'll never have wars like either World War ever again (where large numbers of the poulation were mobilised, and large areas became battlegrounds). The wars of the 21st century are guerilla wars fought by small numbers on either side - Though for ridiculous amounts of time, it seems. How can it possibly take longer than WWII to win in Afghanistan? One has to wonder if the Geneva Conventions do more harm than good sometimes, we could have fought a very quick, bloody war, won outright and probably not inflicted as many civilian casualties as fighting in a "fair" manner over eight years...

Wars may bring people together but they also cause consequences far beyond the deaths of people involved - The Second World War destroyed Britain as a world power, which led to us mainly abandon our Empire, which in turn led to several dictatorships arising which have caused terrible suffering far worse than the colonial period ever inflicted. Burma, Zimbabwe, Palestine... these were British possesions which, had we had the time and money to put in place proper structured governments before we left, might not have had such terrible fates. Indeed, if it's a hotspot for trouble now we probably used to administer it but stopped being able to afford to do so when the Yanks thought they deserved payment for helping us in the War. And then Suez rolled around and completely did for us being taken seriously at alll... That would have been the best time to dig our heels in and force World War III IMO. Damn your spinelessness Eden.

I'm all for a "rip it up and start again" approach to society, but I think internal revolutions are a better way to go than external wars. You're not crazy though, I sometimes just wish the damn nukes would start raining down and give the world a chance to start afresh. There is some form of satisfaction in knowing that things are coming to an end. Post apocolyptic stories do so well because really, deep down, people long for society's collapse. We want to be free of all the stupid bloody rules which we've created, and conflict is usually the only way this is achieved.
 
Wars have certainly been an important part of the cycle of civilization, if only from a point of view of global population control.

That said, threads like this are inevitably horrible ideas in today's society.
 
^ Why so? If we have darker thoughts we're better airing them in the open and talking about them than we are surpressing them. I imagine a lot of people feel the way Yuvie does from time to time.
 
why do we need war for social change?

surely, its better to seek such things through diplomacy and peace?

you dont have to kill someone to convince them there mistaken, look at the civil rights movement, few died, yet a change in societys attitude was acheived, thats what you should hope for, a non violent change through people power, not soldier power.
 
ayase said:
^ Why so? If we have darker thoughts we're better airing them in the open and talking about them than we are surpressing them. I imagine a lot of people feel the way Yuvie does from time to time.
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Because we <i>are</i> at war, and in some people's eyes the only things to come from it are their sons, fathers, husbands and friends dying.
 
ilmaestro said:
ayase said:
^ Why so? If we have darker thoughts we're better airing them in the open and talking about them than we are surpressing them. I imagine a lot of people feel the way Yuvie does from time to time.
Click to expand...
Because we <i>are</i> at war, and in some people's eyes the only things to come from it are their sons, fathers, husbands and friends dying.
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other than death and loss of cash, what do "we" gain from Afghanistan?[/i]
 
Sport is fun, it brings people together but for a temporary period of time. It doesn't change societies views as such. Besides, if you wanted to nit pick, even sports can create violence amongst opposite fans.

Don't get me wrong, it is a horrible idea but for me, it's not so much an idea as a philosophical discussion. I just want people to come in with an open mind. It's a dark thought but it's certainly intriguing to me and to many others. Just look at some of the animes.

I don't think the world will ever see anything like WW1 or WW2 again. As has been mentioned, technology is too sophisticated nowadays for us to worry about packing our bags for a ground war. That being said, a civil war is more along the lines of what I'm talking about. I'm talking specifically about our country. Maybe even then, we wouldn't see such a long drawn-out war because it seems more than likely that whatever side the army is on is gonna come out the eventual winners.

Perhaps I should have used a friendlier term like Revolution. Another interesting subject of discussion but one which inevitably ties hand in hand with war.

Anyway, I'll discuss in detail on another day if anyone wants to that is.
 
This country is heading for a civil war. just wait it out....people aren't getting on and eventually a civil war will break out. its see-able right now....just hope i don't get tangled up in it lol.
 
Nope, we won't have another civil war 'cause we don't have any armaments to fight one with Tach. We might be heading for our own Tienanmen square moment at some point though... It seems the government already treats any form of dissent with absolute contempt. Look at the way protests are policed now, sometimes there seems to be twice the number of police as there are protesters! Let alone the innocent people having their doors bashed down, being arrested and even shot dead because they "think" they're terrorists.

I think the most likely form of conflict to arise within this country would be if the people became so pissed off at the government that the army decided that it would be in their best interests to oppose the government rather than the people. After all, we are pretty powerless ourselves - anyone with weapons could put an uprising in this country down.The major reason I believe in a right to bear arms (as did the American founding fathers) is not for personal self defence, but to give the people the ability to overthrow a corrupt or tyrannical government.
 
Hmm, well, something will happen eventually, but the thing is, I'm not so sure that anyone would be truly ready or bothered to get involved with any kind of conflict within the country. More than likely, people, in their complacent ways, will just revert their thinking to whatever becomes popular opinion. For example, people are so easily & stupidly swayed by the 'all immigrants are bad' thing that I can see heavy violence brewing in areas that you'd class as heavy immigration zones. I mean, you already see that in the streets today. For me, I hardly know an english born person who isn't negative towards immigrants and that's a depressing thought to me. If someone sympathetic to these mindless thoughts gets into power then we are in trouble. I don't want any part of a country if it becomes like that even if I was born here. I know who's side I'd be fighting on. I consider myself english but through schooling to college and now, I have always got on well with anyone and everyone, no matter where they were born.

As for my post, in slight defense of the ideas, one side of my family really were the victims of war and all the brutality it brings. They were immigrants to the UK themselves in the 40's to 50's. I don't want to go into detail but they did go through hell and that side of my family, as a whole, picked themselves up & did well for themselves and you can bet that they understood how precious life was & how petty society can be at times after the hell they went through.

Even if people had guns, I still don't believe enough people would stand up for something they believed in and ACTUALLY go out and fight for change. Our society is fairly fickle and things are forgotten easily.
 
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