The Standards of UK anime discs

[Deleted member 3446]

Ok this is a thread dedicated to (hopefully) improve the standards of UK anime discs.

It is not one where we simply focus on the disc quality and where the distributors get the authors from, it's one where we focus on generally everything including the disc artwork, types of disc cases used, the necessity of combo packs as well. (Anything I missed, please tell me so I can list it as one of the topics we should discuss).

The Standards we'd like UK anime to follow:

Types of cases/packaging used.

Likes:

1) The use of slipcovers on digipaks. It actually serves a purpose holding them together with the bonus of extra artwork.
2) Transparent amaray cases. We like to see artwork inside the cases. This isn't really an option if the case was black, using that type also gives a quite cheap feel.
3) The use of different colour cases. It gives off a good feel if that colour were to particularly suit the series. This isn't to say that we want to have an option of either transparent or colour cases, it's that we'd like both in one. The release of berserk being a decent example, being a red cover and transparent.
4)When doing a box set (slip case), use thin paks or keep cases. A premium quality feel would be to release it as a digipak like the FMA example below. The issue of digipaks being out of collection wouldn't be so bad as well as it would be released in a box set rather than a plain release. The same can be said if super jewels are an option.
5)Digipaks, super jewels and digibooks are generally wanted and preferred.

Dislikes:

1) Brick box sets. The use of these boxes are universally discouraged. We'd prefer it if the use of swing arms were to never be used, rather have separate keep cases instead. If due to cost, that doesn't seem viable, the types of cases shown here are also generally accepted http://www.dvtapes.co.uk/723-909-large/ ... -case-.jpg
http://www.dvtapes.co.uk/721-907-large/ ... -case-.jpg
2) The use of slipcovers on amarays/keep cases. It doesn't add anything except artwork in which case, artwork in the form of slips can be inserted to the dvds.
3) Thin cardboard boxes for box sets as they get ripped very easily. If they were to be used, they should have a double overlapping layer and/or artwork on the inside.
4) The use of eco dvds. This happily hasn't been done yet and hopefully never will be.
5) The release of odd DVD/ blu ray shapes. A good example would be the release of Durarara! by Beez. Although, it was a very good quality release with the case type, artwork etc., the shape makes it look out of place in a collection.

Anime artwork used.

Likes:

1)Clean cut anime artwork on the boxes/ cases.
-Blu ray/ double play banners should instead be present as a form of sticker, or as a cardboard box attachment ( similar to how funimation do with their artbox releases)
-The no. of discs/episodes should be present as a sticker instead of on the artwork- it can be used as good marketing ploy as well.

Dislikes:

1) The presence of clutter on the box art
- The no. of discs should not be present.
- Quotes and ratings should not be on the cover
- Blu ray/ double play banners should not be present
- Logos on the cover should be kept to a minimum

The Disc Content.
Likes:
Dislikes:

Extras (artbooks, artcards, figures/toys etc.)
Likes:
Dislikes:


To reduce as much clutter and off-topic discussion as is possible, I think we should stick to solely one topic and come to conclusions based on what we can universally agree upon. I can then stick that to the front page while we move on to the next topic.

I know it may be asking for much, but it's a thread where the contribution of the distributor representatives are encouraged. In some cases, even if us fans can come to the conclusion of what should be the definitive anime release, it's sometimes just not possible to see that type of release over here. As well as taking into account finance, the use of certain artworks, art designs may not be allowed, for instance. Having the representatives tell us that would be reassuring. That and the distributor representatives have some idea of what the market is like, knowing what they like aesthetically, and what types of releases are viable for the market.

This thread is still a work in progress as the definitive list of what to be discussed still needs to be done. I will try to list the conclusions that we can maybe come to at the front page for all to see and the compromises that may have to be made (this would only work if representatives were to take part; their knowledge of the manufacturing costs, what rights they have etc).

Hopefully this thread will take off and maybe even become a sticky, reducing the 'clutter' of the 'Upcoming UK anime DVD artwork' thread as well as other threads, in which other users haven't seen, where representatives stick their nose in on certain aspects of the UK anime industry that we wouldn't have otherwise known about if we hadn't seen that post.

Here's a good thread for the types of cases we can get for dvd/bds :
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task ... &PageNum=1
I can edit this post to include the images if people want.

I understand some topics like what types of cases people like is subjective, but there are some stuff I feel, that we can all show a universal liking/ disliking for. The case of 'Welcome to the NHK Complete collection' for instance (if someone could show pics of that brick boxset, that'd be great!), it really did give off the cheap half arsed release feel, nothing like that of the FMA boxsets that were released in 4 parts and really looked premium (reference pic; http://images1.myreviewer.co.uk/medium/0000212850.jpg)

Sorry for the long opener, I will delete parts of it if and when necessary.

*Added a new new topic

*Edited to make things more clear.

 

[Mangaranga]

I'll say sorry in advance if I've completely missed the point of this thread

I'm going to start here being the negative one. The audience for anime just isn't really there anymore over here, so I can see why it's harder to justify paying the costs for nicer materials as a distributor when you might only sell a few hundred copies. The Only exception somewhat is Kaze as their releases cover multiple European countries, so it's easier for them to justify doing something 'Special' with their releases, although I don't personally consider BD/DVD Digipacks special. I'd only want the Bluray on it's own, and even then you only get nicer packaging in exchange for Kaze's awful Blu-rays.

I found your comparison interesting though, the cheap case for Welcome to the NHK compared to the nice FMA releases.
FMA is one of those highly popular shows which is likely to sell many copies, and has many more dedicated fans than NHK, therefore you have a larger audience.
I'm also going to take a punt and say that FMA was released around 2006 when Anime was at it's high, quite a few older release came out in volumes with extras/artboxes which were more expensive, but that Strategy doesn't work anymore. People don't realise how much money goes into these shows and expect a half/full series collection for next to nothing. (Who even released FMA here?)

I think at the moment, the closest to anything special you will get are slipcovers, which I think Jerome said on the Birmingham expo podcast are something like 75p each to produce.

One question I do have when it comes to UK cases though is why we have massive blu-ray cases. The ones from the US distributors are so much thinner and just look must nicer.

 

[Shiroi Hane]

I think at the moment, the closest to anything special you will get are slipcovers, which I think Jerome said on the Birmingham expo podcast are something like 75p each to produce.

I made a note somewhere...

Slipcovers: 45p ea
Digipacks: £1.40 ea

 

[Deleted member 3446]

I'll say sorry in advance if I've completely missed the point of this thread

No it's fine you haven't, I'm glad that you focused on the negative aspects of the industry actually. Rather than us users dreaming ideals that be can used for releases over here, you've already focused on the realistic choices that have to be made within the industry.

The audience for anime just isn't really there anymore over here, so I can see why it's harder to justify paying the costs for nicer materials as a distributor when you might only sell a few hundred copies. The Only exception somewhat is Kaze as their releases cover multiple European countries, so it's easier for them to justify doing something 'Special' with their releases, although I don't personally consider BD/DVD Digipacks special. I'd only want the Bluray on it's own, and even then you only get nicer packaging in exchange for Kaze's awful Blu-rays.

Yes I generally agree with you on only having the blu ray release as well, but as we all know, compromises have to be made. There probably already has been much discussion among the distributors over on what cases have to be used. The use of combo digipaks 'forces' people to buy the blu ray as well, for those that are still reluctant to get a blu ray player, the price seems to be justified because it feels of much higher quality than that of keep cases.

I'm also going to take a punt and say that FMA was released around 2006 when Anime was at it's high, quite a few older release came out in volumes with extras/artboxes which were more expensive, but that Strategy doesn't work anymore.

Really? I thought with the release of Tiger & Bunny being released in 4 volumes, then that strategy may still work over here. It indicates that people may be willing to pay those prices even though it is a lower quality release (I'm saying this in comparison to the FMA box sets: both in artwork and value for money). So what really matters I think for those releases, as long the digipaks have that premium quality feel with the artbooks and such, it's ok to release it. Sure Kaze seem to be the only company that is able to do it as they can release in multiple countries, but it's something I feel may be combated by the upcoming releases from anime limited. If they were release to their new blu rays/ dvds in the form of digipaks, digibooks, jewel cases, snappers etc, it suggests that the use of keep cases wasn't one of finance entirely. Beez as well, they used digipaks, something I hope didn't contribute to their bankruptcy. I for one would have never bought The Tatami Galaxy if it hadn't been in a good quality case. So in that sense, the use of these digipaks may be justified as anime fans tend to care a lot about aesthetics, there must be a reason why manga does those unboxing videos right?

Who even released FMA here?

It was released by Revelation Films, the Uk distributor for funimation before Manga took over.

One question I do have when it comes to UK cases though is why we have massive blu-ray cases. The ones from the US distributors are so much thinner and just look must nicer.

Yeah I know what you mean, it's not as if it is an anime only thing as well. Just look at the Stanley Kubrick Collection for instance:

Sure there was a artbook but the box set is something truly horrid. I just hope Manga don't make the same mistake with the release of the new FMA blu ray box set, doing something similar instead to the dvd collection (or maybe even a digibook).

So the first topic we will be discussing is what types of cases should be used over here.

 

[GolGotha]

I agree with Mangaranga.

If we don't support the UK companies they won't take bigger risks, series wise and cases/extras wises, and it'll just go round in circles until we have nothing left.

So right now all we can do is support the stuff coming out so they can afford to make future releases better. Or we could try and say "We would like xx to come out in a digi pack like yy and we would pay double for it" So if enough people feel the same way, we get the packaging like we want and they aren't out of pocket.

It also doesn't help that the younger generation don't seem to understand that. Perhaps if one of the big distributors did an article on the process and cost behind making anime, dubbing it, distributing it then they may want to actually put their hands in their pockets.

Especially as I imagine half of them dream about working in the industry.

but yes, I love digi packs and I would prefer all anime releases to be done that way, but I can understand that it isn't always feasible to do so.

But here is a list of my pet peevs:

Red triangle from Manga
Disc logos from MVM
Thin cardboard cases as they are far too frail
"x many episodes over x discs"
Quotes/ratings on the front cover

Which are slowly being rectified, so they are listening to our pleas! We just have to be more patient and for some of us, put our money where our mouth is.

From Wiki "MVM had released the first eight volumes in the United Kingdom, however, Funimation gave the rights over to Revelation Films."

On the subject of FMA, I think the American version of that set was about $200 in total, which I would of been happy paying as they are gorgeous.

 

[Joshawott]

UK anime releases are a hell of a lot better than the Supernatural live-action series. At least with anime, we tend to get each disc in a multi-disk set having unique cover and menu art.

In terms of what cases I prefer, without a doubt it has to be digipacks. I know that they're expensive (I can see why, with £1.40 a unit, companies are reluctant. For a minimum order of 3000, that's an extra £4200). For boxsets, I prefer slip cases with thinpacks.

I'm fine with keep cases, as long as they're clear. Black keep cases look incredibly tacky and mean I can't have a reversible cover.

(Who even released FMA here?)

MVM released volumes 1-8, then when FUNimation dropped them for Revelation, Revelation released 9-13 (as well as rereleasing 1-8).

I think at the moment, the closest to anything special you will get are slipcovers, which I think Jerome said on the Birmingham expo podcast are something like 75p each to produce.

It was 45p per slipcover. I dislike slipcovers anyway. I can tolerate them if it's with a digipack, as it holds it all together, but for an amaray? No.

One question I do have when it comes to UK cases though is why we have massive blu-ray cases. The ones from the US distributors are so much thinner and just look must nicer.

I know right? The big chunky UK BD cases look awful and tacky. I have the Harry Potter Complete Film blu-ray boxset and films 1-6 are fine in standard sized amarays and then you have the two Deathly Hallows films shoved into a bigger one, so it looks really uneven.

 

[Rosencrantz]

Hmm, I follow that link hoping to unravel the mystery of case type terminology, but it didn't cover everything I wanted to know.

In basic terms a clear plastic case, if it's 2 discs one on each side, and as thin as possible. I dislike overlapping discs, if it has to have a swing arm in the middle it should be restricted to 2 discs, 1 on either side (4 total in the case). I hate those sets with 6 discs that have that stupid linkage swing arm mechanism as it's just too easy to break.

-edit-

And however invented the case type where all the discs are stacked ontop of each other should be shot

 

[Dan]

And whoever invented the case type where all the discs are stacked ontop of each other should be shot

Haha, yeah that is very annoying.

Personally just don't like anything that takes up too much space, thus why I never used to buy the big boxsets, all though they seem to have dissappeared now anyway.

 

[Deleted member 3446]

Hmm, I follow that link hoping to unravel the mystery of case type terminology, but it didn't cover everything I wanted to know.

What stuff did it miss? I'll try to cover it. Some types of cases were left until later posts as they are considered custom/ individual.

If we don't support the UK companies they won't take bigger risks, series wise and cases/extras wises, and it'll just go round in circles until we have nothing

So right now all we can do is support the stuff coming out so they can afford to make future releases better.

I know but if that stance were to be taken, it feels like we are being kind of forced to support the industry when really we should be buying shows because we enjoy them. If the distributors were to take bigger risks with the use of digipaks, it will gather potential or rather inevitable sales. As anime has now pretty much become online only, people will now pay much more attention to what cases are being used, the sales of digipaks now means people are willing to fork over the extra cash.

Thin cardboard cases as they are far too frail

Yes, the death note box set was one that was extremely easy to damage. It is literally one layer, with no folding or anything. All cardboard boxes I think should be similar to the example of the slipcase given in the link in the opening post.

Or we could try and say "We would like xx to come out in a digi pack like yy and we would pay double for it" So if enough people feel the same way, we get the packaging like we want and they aren't out of pocket.

I think your second suggestion is something that actually should be done by the distributors. The only issue with that is we have to put our money where our mouth is, and I'm not saying animeuknews wouldn't do that, it's just that this site doesn't necessarily represent the entire market. It really all depends on how well the distributors keep their relationship with the fanbase. Maybe covering this stuff at cons, twitter, facebook and of course the contribution to certain forums to keep informed with what fans want would be best. Similar to what Manga did with their facebook like page to release certain things over here.

It was 45p per slipcover. I dislike slipcovers anyway. I can tolerate them if it's with a digipack, as it holds it all together, but for an amaray? No.

Agreed. The use of slipcovers I feel was pointless in the madoka, geass sets. It would only make sense if you wanted more artwork, in which case, why can't a distributor just slip some art cards inside the actual case? That or the use of lenticular covers, something that is guaranteed to get more sales as they're so cool, especially if it were somehow be done for anime.

So gathering from the posts here:
everyone would like to see digipaks being released in the future? Perhaps to be even used as the standard compared to keep cases/amareys?
The use of brick box (like the one used for the stanley kubrick collection) is generally disliked, and we'd like it if anything bigger than a standard amaray were to be avoided?

Concerning box sets, what types of cases do people like being put in them?
I like the use of several standard sized amarays and don't mind the use of thin packs. It's just the use of brick box sets that always grinds my gears. My ideal for the future would be the use of jewel boxes or digibooks.

 

[GolGotha]

I know but if that stance were to be taken, it feels like we are being kind of forced to support the industry when really we should be buying shows because we enjoy them. If the distributors were to take bigger risks with the use of digipaks, it will gather potential or rather inevitable sales. As anime has now pretty much become online only, people will now pay much more attention to what cases are being used, the sales of digipaks now means people are willing to fork over the extra cash.

I don't think we are being forced. We've always had the option to import and a lot do, but I think of a UK distributor as a family run shop trying to compete against a big brand like Tesco. Yes, everyone wants the best for their money, but whilst the number of sales are this low we can't expect them to fork out more digi packs for more/every release in the hope it will get more people to buy as it could end up having the opposite effect.

I think your second suggestion is something that actually should be done by the distributors. The only issue with that is we have to put our money where our mouth is, and I'm not saying animeuknews wouldn't do that, it's just that this site doesn't necessarily represent the entire market. It really all depends on how well the distributors keep their relationship with the fanbase. Maybe covering this stuff at cons, twitter, facebook and of course the contribution to certain forums to keep informed with what fans want would be best. Similar to what Manga did with their facebook like page to release certain things over here.

I think distributors should ask these things, but I think we also need to bring it to their attention, like how we did with the Manga covers, because if no one brings it to their attention they probably would of thought everyone was fine with it.

Concerning box sets, what types of cases do people like being put in them?
I like the use of several standard sized amarays and don't mind the use of thin packs. It's just the use of brick box sets that always grinds my gears. My ideal for the future would be the use of jewel boxes or digibooks.

I prefer thin packs, mainly due to space.

 

[Shiroi Hane]

My absolute favourites are steelbooks. I've bought a few things just because they were in steelbooks (I haven't even watched Voltron for that matter)
I like superjewels.

I quite book-style digipaks - it helps if these have slipcovers to keep them together.
I don't like it when the discs overlap though since I don't appreciate having to juggle (Haruhi R2J compromised with a sliding mechanism.)

If you want a lot of discs in one case, then this is better than the flappy trays that MVM uses.

The cases I can't stand are:
All cardboard (like Animazing's Narue)
Those eco ones with the holes that Sentai use.
The thinpaks FUNimation used to use with the arrow-shaped pins in the hub that always broke off before you even opened them.
The ones that some US distros used to use for singles (Scanavo IIRC) that gripped the disc so firmly it felt like it was going to snap.

 

[Just Passing Through]

I prefer thin packs, mainly due to space.

I want a special edition DVD to come packaged in a fifty room mansion somewhere in Kensington. That way I could use all the other rooms to store my other anime, and have room to live as well.

Seriously, I have too many issues with disc content to worry about packaging (incidentally the title of this thread needs changing to The Standards of UK Packaging). If you can't get your subtitles to work, don't think you can placate me with a fricken toy Jellyfish!

 

[Joshawott]

For boxsets, I quite like the first print-run Bleach sets, which were thinpacks in slipcases.

 

[Deleted member 3446]

I think distributors should ask these things, but I think we also need to bring it to their attention, like how we did with the Manga covers, because if no one brings it to their attention they probably would of thought everyone was fine with it.

Yes, that is one of the main points of this thread. Where we could list our likes/ dislikes generally like that of the Manga covers where we don't want certain things on them (e.g listing the disc amount on the artwork). So we can form a general consensus of sorts. Then show this info to the representatives.

If you want a lot of discs in one case, then this is better than the flappy trays that MVM uses.

Wow that one is amazing. We should bring this type of case to their attention. The only concern is the cost. I don't remember any Uk releases ever having the jewel type release here. It does seem like a good box set type if the use of amarays and thin paks are out of the question.

incidentally the title of this thread needs changing to The Standards of UK Packaging

I was contemplating about making this thread that way but I made this to consider UK anime discs as a whole:

The types of cases used
The actual standards of the discs themselves(things to do with the transfers, extras and that sort)
The artwork used on the covers( the uses of logos, what's on the spine etc.)
Anything else I missed.

The standards of packaging you're referring to is only but one topic that needs to be discussed. If people truly want it, I can change the title of the thread to what Just Passing Through suggested so we can focus only on the packaging. However, if that were to happen, multiple threads would have to be created each covering the topics I listed.

And that's not something I'd like to happen, it's a thread where we here at animeuknews can come to conclusions on what'd the best sort of standards should be used for the industry (ideally, realistically and financially). A thread where we can list our 'what can be considered' universal likes and dislikes for each topic. I would then list them on the opening post. Something for literally all the distributor representatives to see instead having to browse multiple threads to see what we want.

 

[Just Passing Through]

A thread on defective discs already exists, and is already stickied...

 

[Dan]

Wasn't exactly sure what a digipak was but after checking i can confirm, I don't like digi packs, there horrid. Give me a good quality amaray that doesn't take up unecessary room any day.

Super Jewels look so out of place in a collection, I have one and it looks naff next to my other DVDs. I think it was Universal who were using them but they didn't last long.

 

[Mr Vile]

I am torn. On a quality level I thought the packaging for Durarara was really nice. Thick covers, good inlays, easy to open. On the other hand they really stand out in my pile and because they don't have the title on the long spine like every other anime I own, they make my OCD'ness itch.

 

[GolGotha]

I prefer digi packs and slim cases, but these ones are okay.

 

[Deleted member 3446]

A thread on defective discs already exists, and is already stickied...

When I was referring to the standards of UK anime discs, I wasn't referring to things like subtitle issues, mislabelled discs and that sort. What I meant was what the standards of the discs that we'd like the distributors to follow. Things like having art on the discs,whether the presence of trailers should be used for future discs etc. Again, I'm not referring to the issues with discs we have now or what we will have in the future, it's just going to be a list of we really would like to have and not have on the discs in the future. Sorry for the misunderstanding. This a little off-topic strictly speaking as the topic at hand is what cases people prefer.

So everyone seems to be very subjective stance on this matter. The main issues being the space usage of the cases and whether they look nice compared to their collection.

Is it alright to presume that everyone hates the use of brick box sets, the only exception maybe being the jewel box Shiroi Hane listed?

 

[Mangaranga]

I am torn. On a quality level I thought the packaging for Durarara was really nice. Thick covers, good inlays, easy to open. On the other hand they really stand out in my pile and because they don't have the title on the long spine like every other anime I own, they make my OCD'ness itch.

You know what makes my OCD'ness itch? Some of Kaze's spines/cases. You have, for example, Code Geass. Nicer slim case (Not US nice though) with text the correct way round. Then you have Mardock Scramble with it's horrible Square case and text the wrong way round/at the wrong end of the spine.

Back to the topic on hand though, you have to take into account though that it's probably harder to do nicer things too due to having two formats (just because the inferior one will just not bloody well die like it should). Back when they were doing special things with packaging and such, everyone bought the same product - same format, same costs, same standards. Now we have to deal with two formats, and if you release DVD only, you piss off your BD only audience (e.g. ME) and vice versa.
Another thing which I dislike (And I'll use Kaze as an example again here) is when a distributor thinks DVD+BD together is a 'Collectors Edition'. It just makes the product more expensive for buyers from both sides and really doesn't add anything at all.

Some shows I do buy if they are DVD only in America like Index/Railgun, but I wouldn't buy a cheaper UK DVD release because of PAL conversions.

From my point of view, I rarely buy UK releases just because we deal with things like massive delays, disc issues, a lot of shows still being DVD only and Kaze's wonderful 'quality' releases.
With most shows on BD, Funi including an artbox with most of their releases, Aniplex and NISA putting out some REALLY nice sets, and US releases in general being for the most part problem free (With the exception of Sentai's Blurays recently), I don't exactly have a reason NOT to go elsewhere, especially when I am getting a better quality product.

That said, I'll give MVM the thumbs up for their recent announcements and I'll be supporting them (Covers permitting), especially since they seem to be working with Sentai and Hanabee and getting their releases out within 1-2 months of the US date (Something which Manga should take note of). They also managed to pick up Bakemono/Nisemonogatari of which I'll most likely be double dipping on Bakemono despite having AoA's set. Now if only they could improve their Covers.