Technical problems with blu-ray discs

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
I couldn't split the topic, but this continues straight from the discussion here:

http://forums.animeuknews.net/viewtopic ... 507#358507

The purpose of this topic is to list, discuss and identify technical problems with particular blu-ray discs so that we can report them to the companies and (hopefully) improve the products we're buying! While some decisions made in blu-ray production are unfortunate, such as deliberately locking subtitles on or off for particular audio tracks, this thread's main purpose is for unintentional glitches which should be easily fixed.

The main focus is on UK releases, but those of us with foreign versions can add comparisons so we can work out who is responsible for correcting the bugs we find. In particular, listing who actually authored the disc might be key.

Samurai Girls (UK version)
Flickering subtitles when multiple subtitle tracks with different timings are used (e.g. episode 5 at 08m55s).
Mistimed subtitles in episode 6.
Disc position isn't saved (PS3).
Discs authored by: ??? (Kaze)

Samurai Girls (US version)
NO flickering subtitles when multiple subtitle tracks with different timings are used.
Subtitle timing in episode 6 seems fine (spot checked only).
Disc position IS saved (PS3).
Discs authored by: Seraphim/Sentai.

Star Driver 1-2 (US version)
Flickering subtitles when multiple subtitle tracks with different timings are used.
Disc position isn't saved (PS3).
Discs authored by: Bang Zoom Entertainment

Redline (UK version)
Disc position isn't saved (PS3).
Discs authored by: ??? (Manga)

Redline (US version)
Disc position isn't saved (PS3).
Discs authored by: Uncredited, but only Bang Zoom Entertainment are credited for the English work so I'm suspicious. Has similarly annoying unskippable logos at the start on different chapters which I had to fast forward.

Arakawa Under The Bridge (US version)
Disc position isn't saved.
Discs authored by: ??? (NIS America)

Katanagatari (US version)
Disc position isn't saved.
Discs authored by: ??? (NIS America)
 

Project-2501

Straw Hat Pirate
Worth noting that discs with BD-java don't resume unless you save a bookmark. Its not a fault with that particular disc but with the bluray standard and possibly your player. Darn annoying!!
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
Very interesting! So is that the problem with the Bang Zoom disc(s), and is making use of BD-Java worth the trouble when it causes this? Star Driver has the most barebones discs I have ever bought; there can't possibly be any reason to do anything fancy, all the more so if there are drawbacks.

I don't mind when I'm playing back on my computer since it gets around all kinds of inconvenient design decisions, but on my PS3 (which is attached to the main TV), presumably still one of the most common playback devices, it's very annoying when I have to find my place again on a long disc every time I switch to playing a game disc in between viewings.

R
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
It's difficult to describe without making a video, but when the songs play, there are dialogue subs at the bottom of the screen and song subs at the top. Because the timings are different for the song lyrics and the spoken dialogue, every time one of the sets of subtitles changes to show a new line, the other set flashes.

So if you can imagine, if the dialogue subs change five or six times across one single line of the song (e.g. when characters are talking quickly to one another), the song subs flash on and off five or six times per line, which looks absolutely terrible. The same happens the other way around. I genuinely wished when I watched it that they just hadn't bothered subtitling the songs at all as they were ruining the subtitles for the dialogue.

(Aside from the two issues, the Star Driver discs are mostly great and look gorgeous.)

Fabricatedlunatic described the same kind of thing with Kaze's Samurai Girls in the linked thread above, only there it is the sign subtitles which cause the dialogue subtitles to flash (rather than songs).

R
 

Reaper gI

Pokémon Master
Rui said:
Very interesting! So is that the problem with the Bang Zoom disc(s), and is making use of BD-Java worth the trouble when it causes this? Star Driver has the most barebones discs I have ever bought; there can't possibly be any reason to do anything fancy, all the more so if there are drawbacks.

R
You need BD-Java to do (non-DVD) subtitles on a BD. It's that or deal with the 4 colour and low resolution problems.
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
Reaper gI said:
You need BD-Java to do (non-DVD) subtitles on a BD. It's that or deal with the 4 colour and low resolution problems.

Perhaps we can compare screenshots, but I don't think the subtitling on Sentai's Samurai Girls or Funimation's discs looks bad - certainly not as bad as DVD subtitles. Perhaps there are colour restrictions, and perhaps the resolution isn't quite as pin sharp (I haven't compared) but I'd take the perfectly acceptable Sentai/Funimation subtitles over not being able to resume playback any day, especially now that single discs can contain a ton of episodes and I might want to take breaks between them.

R
 

Reaper gI

Pokémon Master
Rui said:
Reaper gI said:
You need BD-Java to do (non-DVD) subtitles on a BD. It's that or deal with the 4 colour and low resolution problems.

Perhaps we can compare screenshots, but I don't think the subtitling on Sentai's Samurai Girls or Funimation's discs looks bad - certainly not as bad as DVD subtitles. Perhaps there are colour restrictions, and perhaps the resolution isn't quite as pin sharp (I haven't compared) but I'd take the perfectly acceptable Sentai/Funimation subtitles over not being able to resume playback any day, especially now that single discs can contain a ton of episodes and I might want to take breaks between them.

R
You could just navigate back through the menus
As was pointed out DVD subs are much harder to make.

Java subs can be text and you can have multiple ones up concurrently, like with fansubs or internet streaming.

See ANNcast this week on getting Aegisub to output to a standard used in BD authoring. This is actually why so many JP BDs aren't subbed even if the studio has the rights to a full set of subs it streamed with.
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
Then somewhere you are mistaken, as Sentai's Samurai Girls has multiple subs up concurrently (hence the original discussion) and yet it can be resumed from any point. This doesn't tally with the information, does it?

I would like other authoring houses to figure out how the better ones are doing it, and do the same, so that discs all work better ^^;

R
 

Reaper gI

Pokémon Master
Rui said:
Then somewhere you are mistaken, as Sentai's Samurai Girls has multiple subs up concurrently (hence the original discussion) and yet it can be resumed from any point. This doesn't tally with the information, does it?

I would like other authoring houses to figure out how the better ones are doing it, and do the same, so that discs all work better ^^;

R
you sure that isn't just one set of subs.
DVD subs can only show 1 "line" at a time, that "line" can still look like 2


java example (2 lines)
line1: person A line from 00:00 to 00:05
line2: person B line from 00:03 to 00:07

DVD example (3 lines)
line1:person A line from 00:00 to 00:03
line2:person A's and person B's lines from 00:03 to 00:05
line3:person B line from 00:03 to 00:07

read the article Shiroi linked
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
Reaper gI said:
you sure that isn't just one set of subs.

Yes, 100% sure! Please read fabricatedlunatic's original complaint in the viewing journal thread which prompted me to specifically check a part of the video with two distinct, independently updating sets of subtitles (timestamped in the OP as well) ^^;

I know how single subtitle streams work, I've played with them myself. I suppose the sign sub could be hardsubbed as I didn't try turning them all off, but if Sentai was hardsubbing their sign subs on blu-ray I think the internet would have been aflame a very long time ago. I'll check on my computer when I get back to it just for the absolute elimination of doubt.

R
 
I'm not following the techincal nature of this conversation too well, but I thought I'd mention that the flickering subtitle issue on Samurai Girls also happens when two different characters are talking and their lines overlap.

Some posters at Mania talk about Star Driver here. It's speculated that Bandai may have used a freeware program.

Also, someone mentions that Disappearance of Haruhi has the same issue. As luck would have it, I ordered that release last week. Hopefully I can at least turn the sign subs off, something Kaze won't let me do with Samurai Girls.
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
I didn't actually notice it with Disappearance, but it probably didn't happen as often and I just assumed I had blinked (Star Driver has it happen for long stretches in every episode so it's impossible to miss). It stands to reason that Bandai would have used the same authoring house for both though, so the theory that it could be buggy subbing software sounds very plausible. I reported it to Bang Zoom anyway, hope they respond (or just fix it).

R
 

Reaper gI

Pokémon Master
fabricatedlunatic said:
Some posters at Mania talk about Star Driver here. It's speculated that Bandai may have used a freeware program.
Nothing wrong with free, Aegisub is a fine program (as used by fansubbers and streaming sites alike).
This simply means their quality control people failed.
 
Bandai? Quality control people? Ahahaha.

Whatever is responsible for the subtitle issue, I hope Kaze sorts it out for Mardock Scramble. If that's the same I'm importing from the US in future.
 
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