Sony & anti 2nd hand games tech

Cathe

Great Teacher
So I saw this today: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/01/03/r ... hand-games


I hope this isn't true. If it is true, I hope it's just Sony so I can just buy the next xbox instead of the ps4.

I rarely buy used games anyway but if this goes through we won't even be able to lend games to our friends.

I mean, I took Saints Row 3 round to my friends house before christmas. She played it and liked it - and bought her own copy with her christmas money. Without a way to try the game out she probably wouldn't have done it as SR3, like many games, doesn't have a free demo available for download. If i'm going to a friends house, if i'm not taking a game with me for them to try out - I take one for us to play multiplayer on. Fifa games for example I used to take to a friends house. He dislikes football games so wouldn't buy his own copy but he liked playing co-op on it with me when I visited.

At the moment a lot of games are coming with 'online passes' surely you're all familiar with those. Get game new, enter code, be able to play online. Get game preowned, have to buy code from console store, you can play online and the developer gets some money from the used game. I know a lot of people hate these online passes but I would happily have them included with every game from now on if it meant this rumour doesn't happen.

What if your console breaks? What if they release a 'PS4 Slim' or something and someone wants to upgrade? What about rental shops? Whilst I don't buy many used games, I like being able to trade in games I no longer play so I can get store credit to help pay for a new game I want.

The only way I can agree with this is if they lower new game prices by a lot but that won't happen.


Bah.

Apparently they tried to do this for the PS3 and that didn't work out so i'm probably getting really worked up over nothing but it's just so rubbish that they would even try to do this.

Anyways enough of me complaining.

What do you think?

Are you for/against this?

Any ideas on how Sony should get around pre-owned games that doesn't seem like it will give Xbox or Wii U all their customers?
 

ZenTattooist

Brigade Leader
I think it sucks.... we all enjoy getting bargain pre-owned games at times :)

Still I can understand why they want to do it. I suppose every time a pre-owned game is bought and sold they are essentially missing out on revenue.

One way around it ( just an idea off the top of my head) would be for shops that sell pre-owned games etc to pay a fee or something to the companies to allow them to sell pre-owned stuff??
 

Joshawott

Monsieur Monster
AUKN Staff
Will the PS4 kill used game sales?

For a while now, there has been talking in the gaming industry of next PlayStation and XBox consoles possibly having a feature that will prevent the use of used games. Today, Sony filed a patent for a system that will do just that. The patent they filed is for a system that will tie your game to a specific console, meaning that only your console will be able to play it.

Needless to say, the gaming community isn't very happy with this news.
 

Arbalest

黒い剣士
Moderator
No, i don't agree with this. and i don't think i ever will do. This will essentially have two effects in the gaming world. First, it would kill pre-owned sections in high street retail. Last i checked, pre-owned titles send no income back to the companies that made the games, it goes entirely to the seller. This has kind of been a planned for a while by companies, and to be honest, i think we all came to be ok with the idea of online passes for some content. Now though, it would basically remove the whole idea of pre-owned titles, and essentially force everyone to buy at full price each time, with no other real choices.
Secondly, it would remove the idea of "oh let's take this over to a friends house and enjoy some local multiplayer" which you know, was what made games so wonderful back in the day. Now they would be a counter on the disk, or maybe even a block after it registers with one console and essentially remove any chance of that. "By it yourself or take your entire console with you". No, that would kill a lot of sales.

Ok i get it, it's done entirely to prevent pre-owned sales because they get nothing from it, but this is too extreme. They obviously just ignored the line and just crossed it. The only saving grace is Sony can't enforce it, it's up to the game developers themselves if they want to place the lock on their titles or not. And going by those behind it so far, DICE and Crytek, i think i know who i wouldn't buy from in that situation.

I'll stop, i could rant on about the idiocy of the gaming world for years, but it's depressing, and i'd need more than just some caffeine to type it up.
 

MaxonTreik

Chuunibyou
Re: Will the PS4 kill used game sales?

If the debacle with the Vita is shooting themselves in the foot, this is like Sony shooting themselves in the head. There's no way in hell I'm buying into that nonsense.

It seems like a desperate attempt at getting as much as possible since they have been losing money across many departments due to poor sales.
 

Arbalest

黒い剣士
Moderator
Re: Will the PS4 kill used game sales?

I'm not sure if i should tie this into the Sony topic below this, but i'll decide later.

The outrage is well placed. I won't deny it though, i expected Microsoft to jump the gun first, considering the lengthy list of gamer rage that has followed them last year(Fez guy mentioned $40k to patch a game on 360, windows 8 and the locked platform fiasco) but Sony did instead. Maybe it's going to be the year of Sony rage? who knows. it's stupid regardless. It's not moving gaming into the future, it's removing a lot of the future that can come with it. Taking games with you to other friends' houses when you where a kid, and even now, was ways to advertise them. You could say that without the ability to take games and play them on other peoples consoles, you would never get the sales you get now. The main thing that needs to be done here, is for all the companies that would produce games on the PS4, say, to decide not to follow it. As it will fall to the developers to decide on what to do with it.
 

Cathe

Great Teacher
If both Sony and Microsoft want this....then if Sony does go ahead with it, Microsoft will be silly to do it too as they would get most of Sony's customers.

It would stop us being able to have multiple consoles in the same house and what if our console breaks to the point it can't be repaired and we need a new one? We would have to re-buy all of our games!

Bleh. We'll see what happens when it is announced, I suppose -.-
 

Mutsumi

Guild Member
I'd be happy to settle for the compromise of games only being able to bind to a limited number of consoles. Just one console per disc is far too restrictive, but five would be acceptable to me; it would allow for multiple consoles in one house, lending to a friend, etc, within modest parameters. Binding a game to a PSN account instead would also be acceptable for me, as it would be no different to the method used by Steam, etc.

Ultimately though, I do not see whatever they do on this as having a huge impact on sales, nor am I naive enough to believe Microsoft do not have a similar objective regarding second hand games. It wont be as bad as people are scaremongering it to be because whatever you may think of them, the suits at Sony are not paid to be deaf and blind; they'll likely choose and outcome that only offends an amount of people they deem to be within acceptable numbers. Or they'll back off entirely and hail themselves the saviours of gaming for listening to fans, hoping people forget what they were caught planning in the first place.

Also, does anyone remember when the PC used game market all but went extinct? How it killed PC gaming in general and how the fans were ranting and raving about it? No? So the death of console used game sales will be different how?
 

ayase

State Alchemist
Mutsumi said:
Also, does anyone remember when the PC used game market all but went extinct? How it killed PC gaming in general and how the fans were ranting and raving about it? No? So the death of console used game sales will be different how?
PC games are cheaper on release and fall in price faster. Plus, y'know, cracks are plentiful and they're easier to pirate.
 

Mutsumi

Guild Member
I would disagree with you about PC games falling in price faster; I have seen console game prices plunge mere months after their release. Also, console games more often benefit from special offers and competitive pricing from from retailers from day one, whereas the main distribution platform for PC games nowadays is Steam and other similar services, and they seem to stick to full RRP at first in my experience.

I'll happily concede with you on this point though if we can agree that it just varies too much between one case and another to make a clear call one way or the other. Both sides are either more expensive or cheaper in one circumstance or the other.
 

ayase

State Alchemist
Digital distribution pricing for games less than a year old is still a joke unless there's a sale on, especially where Steam and Origin are concerned. But I can almost always pick up a physical copy of a PC game on release for less than £30 (and often closer to £20) something which in my experience has been an incredibly rare occurrence with PS3 games. Physical PC copies tend to be at least a fiver less than their console counterparts at all times.

Around 70% of my PS3 games were bought second-hand and I do balk at paying over £30 for a game, so unless new game prices are going to fall considerably faster next gen, I'll probably be sticking to PC.
 

Joshawott

Monsieur Monster
AUKN Staff
I think the worst people for digital game pricing are Nintendo. They recently added The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D, Starfox 64 3D and Super Mario 3D Land onto the 3DS eShop, a year after they were released...for £39.99.They didn't even cost that at launch unless you shopped somewhere insanely priced like GAME. Also, for the first two, I can buy the N64 originals for £10 from the Wii Virtual Console. Same with Paper Mario: Sticker Star, I can either buy the physical game online for £30, or download it digitally for £40. And first party Nintendo games seem to never go down in price.

I remember that Capcom recently tried to stop used game sales with Resident Evil: The Mercenaries by making it impossible to delete your save data. The reaction was so negative that they outright stated that they would never be doing it again.
 

Y-San

Shinki
Re: Will the PS4 kill used game sales?

MaxonTreik said:
If the debacle with the Vita is shooting themselves in the foot, this is like Sony shooting themselves in the head. There's no way in hell I'm buying into that nonsense.

It seems like a desperate attempt at getting as much as possible since they have been losing money across many departments due to poor sales.

I feel like I've missed something now. What did Sony do to the Vita?
 

Mutsumi

Guild Member
Re: Will the PS4 kill used game sales?

Lawrence said:
MaxonTreik said:
If the debacle with the Vita is shooting themselves in the foot, this is like Sony shooting themselves in the head. There's no way in hell I'm buying into that nonsense.

It seems like a desperate attempt at getting as much as possible since they have been losing money across many departments due to poor sales.

I feel like I've missed something now. What did Sony do to the Vita?

Region locked it, I believe. Also they sold the memory card separately and didn't include a small cheap one with the console like the PSP came bundled with. Other than that, it is a fantastic bit of kit that just needs some more games.
 

Joshawott

Monsieur Monster
AUKN Staff
I thought the Vita was region free, but some online play was region blocked?

Either way, Sony have cocked up with the Vita as a whole. When the 3DS outsells it at 47:1 in the weekly charts (which it did around towards the end of last year), you know you've failed (hell, the PlayStation Portable still regularly outsells it). Developers are still making games for the PSP, or Vita projects are being moved to the 3DS instead. If you look at the Vita games coming out in 2013, it's an embarrassingly small and un-noteworthy list compared to just about every other console on the market. In fact, a fair few blogs had it in the Top 10 Product Flops of 2012.

On a personal opinion though, I've tried a Vita out a few times (demo stations in GAME) and to be honest, I don't like it. I find it incredibly awkward and uncomfortable to hold. I also find it incredibly expensive and the memory card price is ridiculous (why not just use standard SD cards like the 3DS? I have a cheap 8GB SD card I bought from Play.com for £10. A PS Vita memory card of the same size would cost me £28 from GAME).
 

Mangaranga

Za Warudo
Joshawott said:
I thought the Vita was region free, but some online play was region blocked?

Either way, Sony have cocked up with the Vita as a whole. When the 3DS outsells it at 47:1 in the weekly charts (which it did around towards the end of last year), you know you've failed (hell, the PlayStation Portable still regularly outsells it). Developers are still making games for the PSP, or Vita projects are being moved to the 3DS instead. If you look at the Vita games coming out in 2013, it's an embarrassingly small and un-noteworthy list compared to just about every other console on the market. In fact, a fair few blogs had it in the Top 10 Product Flops of 2012.

On a personal opinion though, I've tried a Vita out a few times (demo stations in GAME) and to be honest, I don't like it. I find it incredibly awkward and uncomfortable to hold. I also find it incredibly expensive and the memory card price is ridiculous (why not just use standard SD cards like the 3DS? I have a cheap 8GB SD card I bought from Play.com for £10. A PS Vita memory card of the same size would cost me £28 from GAME).
The Vita itself is region free, one major problem it has though, is that your PSN account is linked to the console/memory card and you cannot switch accounts easily like on the PS3.
To change accounts you have to format the memory card and system settings. This is a major pain in the ass for people who like to buy from the JP/US store like myself, or even want to buy DLC for imports.

What's more annoying is that as well as having less games on PSN, we get completely f'd when it comes to pricing for digital copies of games too. They try to push digital sales, yet they expect their consumers to pay s***loads for memory cards, and then spend more for digital copies than the cheaper physical one.

You also cannot apparently get trophies on pre-owned games, not that I care less about that. If a game is good, I should get the sense of achievement from playing it and having fun, not sodding around for hours to get a virtual trophy.

I'm kinda disappointed with the new gen of handhelds in general. The Vita could have been a good handheld, being marketed as a home type console on the go, then Sony go and make it very user unfriendly, and it barely has any games to back it up either.
The 3ds on the other hand... I bought one day 1 and I traded it in for a PS3 a few months later before the price drop.
I have no plans to buy one again until a main series Pokemon game comes out, a proper hardware revision with a decent screen + sound gets released, or it gets hacked to remove that stupid friggin region lock.

See, this is the positive of owning/having owned both consoles, I can bitch about them. :twisted:
 

Y-San

Shinki
If it makes you feel better, I think you can get R4 cards for the 3ds now. Both consoles are pretty shoddy for different reasons though and you've hit most of them on the head. Re-releasing the 3DS without adding a second stick seems kinda inane but it's okay because you can buy a large chunk of black plastic to make your big handheld bigger.
 

Mangaranga

Za Warudo
Lawrence said:
If it makes you feel better, I think you can get R4 cards for the 3ds now. Both consoles are pretty shoddy for different reasons though and you've hit most of them on the head. Re-releasing the 3DS without adding a second stick seems kinda inane but it's okay because you can buy a large chunk of black plastic to make your big handheld bigger.
I still have an Acekard from ages ago that's borderline dying. They only let you run DS games though, even on a 3ds.
I only ever used it to play the Japanese Pokemon B/W + B/W2 though anyway, as my DS Lite broke ages ago and retail versions don't work with the DSi. I own the European versions though, despite barely playing them in English.

I wouldn't have any intention of pirating 3ds games, but if using a flashcart became the only way to play imports, there is that feeling of 'oh, i can't be bothered to buy and wait weeks for the game to come, I'll go download and play it now. It wasn't meant for me anyway'.

I just find it stupid that Nintendo didn't want the whole piracy situation again, yet by locking the system, there's probably more people who want the 3DS hacked now so they don't have to put up with this crap, and when that happens, Piracy is bound to become a problem again.

Why can't I play Japanese games just because I don't have a Japanese system, or games localised IN ENGLISH from another territory because I don't have the respective system?

And on the 3ds consoles themselves, I think of it this way - the original 3ds has the issues of the original DS - Dim screen, bad sound, looks ugly etc., and the XL screens are just so big it looks silly. If/when they release the '3ds lite' with a much better screen and acceptable sound, I will most likely buy it. To be honest, I only ever buy nintendo systems for the main Pokemon games anyway >_>
I'm pretty the sure the only DS games I own are Diamond, Soulsilver, White and White 2. I did have Platinum and the mystery dungeons at one point too ^_^
 

Joshawott

Monsieur Monster
AUKN Staff
I do love the Nintendo 3DS (I think the extra features, like StreetPass, are awesome) but I do agree that at times the screen can look too small. As for the 3DS XL, I passed on the DSi XL because I felt it was too big and I feel the same with the 3DS XL. Not to mention that personally, I don't like the build of the 3DS XL - it feels cheap, whereas the 3DS actually feels like it's worth the price tag. In terms of screen size, I'd certainly love it if the 3DS' top screen had the height of the DSi's, while retaining the width of the 3DS'. I'm fortunate that I won mine at a midnight launch, because before the price drop and the release of Ocarina of Time 3D, I probably would have regretted buying one. However, now there are many games available for it.

And don't worry, the first main series 3DS Pokémon games will most likely be announced on Tuesday =3

Region blocking is an annoyance though. From Generations IV-V, I would import a Pokémon game from Japan for launch (at least the DS Lite would allow me to play Generation V, which was region blocked on the DSi/3DS). Now though? There are other Japanese 3DS games I would like to own, but not enough to make me want to buy a Japanese 3DS.

Lawrence said:
If it makes you feel better, I think you can get R4 cards for the 3ds now. Both consoles are pretty shoddy for different reasons though and you've hit most of them on the head. Re-releasing the 3DS without adding a second stick seems kinda inane but it's okay because you can buy a large chunk of black plastic to make your big handheld bigger.
Speaking of the Circle Pad Pro, now that you mention it...I haven't heard much of any games using it since the initial three: Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (which it was made for), Resident Evil Revelations and Kid Icarus: Uprising (the latter only using it to allow for easier left-handed play). I did hear that Nintendo are developing a cartridge that will allow the 3DS and Wii U to connect easier, while using the CC Pro though (possibly to use the 3DS as an additional GamePad controller?).
 
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