So what just happened at UK Anime Network?

The podcast in question brought up several political views that could be considered controversial, including an attack on the site AnimeFeminist, in particular their Patreon funding. They also referenced pro-gamergate publications that seem fairly misogynistic and generally unpleasant. That's about the gist anyway, I never actually listened to the podcast, but that's about what I can gather.
 
Since the podcast in question has been removed, all that's left is to speculate over the ashes...

Don't podcasts kick off with the ass-covering disclaimer that the views within don't reflect the organisation, or is that just an Anime Limited thing?
 
As I'm sure is readily apparent, this is a discussion that could very easily turn fractious if we're not careful. Please remember to be excellent to each other and thoughtful in how you express your viewpoints, as I am confident you all shall be.
 
Lambadelta said:
I feel the podcast (I have listened to it) is filled with hypocrisy, and a bit of fear-mongering tbh.
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I've heard it too now... and I got the reverse, filled with fear-mongering, and a bit of hypocrisy. Although in this case I was primed for the worst before I started listening. I was expecting the car-crash.
 
I don't really listen to podcasts but I remember Martin from his time posting here as a thoughtful guy, and wish him well with whatever he goes on to in the future.

I have stumbled upon AnimeFeminist reviews once or twice though while looking for particular shows, and I have to say think that site is really only any good if people care about the media they consume representing their own socio-political views (which I think personally is rather unfortunate and somewhat anti-art). Their reviews also have the tendency to represent not actually particularly feminist viewpoints, but rather very wet American liberal viewpoints that bemoan things such as "mean spirited humour", characters who do Bad Things ever being sympathetic and the massive issue they have with the idea anyone under the magic age of 18 might be attracted or attractive to anyone over it. When I can actually pull the quotes:
as someone who has a tendency to guilt-spiral about consuming problematic media
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and
I’m actually shaking a little as I type this.
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From their articles I know this is not a site I am ever likely to be taking recommendations from. Not because I disagree with feminism, but because I'm not such an absolute weed that I can't cope with seeing certain things depicted in fictional media.
 
Oof. I wondred when / if this was going to be discussed over here.

It's not really an incident I care to say too much on, or look into too deeply. But mention of some of the issues involved is enough to push my buttons. I dunno about anyone else, but I'm personally growing increasingly weary of websites and internet personalities reporting on entertainment or entertainment industry news with a hefty dose of their own politicized agenda.
 
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First I've heard of this since I don't follow fandom drama much, but I'm pretty shocked. The actual topic in question... well.

I'd never even heard of the site they were attacking before and I'm not the target audience for it; it would be like me reading a fundamentalist Christian anime review site and getting upset that they didn't like Bible Black very much (this is a real thing). Not worried about 'animegate' since, well, gatekeeping is petty anyway, and I've played games for decades without identifying as a gamergater. It's not going to harm anything about the fandom that I care about.

(On behalf of my very articulate feminist Japanese friends I would like to officially raise an eyebrow at the presumption that feminism doesn't exist in Japan's anime fandom.)

R
 
Captaaainuniverse said:
And the animegate thing, I do believe there needs to be a discussion on what it is, how it is implemented and wether the gatekeeping is a thing that's needed, but I don't think this site is the place to have that discussion, we've all seen what people do when they've run out of things to say and are afraid of "losing"
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I honestly don't think there needs to be a discussion on whether gatekeeping is needed in the hobby any more than there needs to be a discussion on whether flaming other fan groups is needed on the forums (it's not). I have removed your post because it broke the long-established site rules on inciting flames/trolling, and also ignored Teapot's polite warning about showing respect in this thread (not to me, I don't care, but to other fans). Please note that I have never removed a post for any reason other than breaking site rules. I can try being less relaxed about enforcing the punishment part of the site rules if we can't get along but I hope that we can!

(Fear not, I am very happy to engage with you in further discussions in PMs if you are worried I may have run out of things to say.)

R
 
I'm in two minds about the whole thing.

Having heard the podcast, I found it to trigger my "rolleyes" response far too often, with a scattershot approach to generating controversy. I'm really only interested in the content insofar as the fallout and subsequent response however.

There's part of me that thinks that the podcast should have stayed up, as there were opinions in there that I found questionable, and such opinions need to be confronted and challenged. The way things have played out, there is no right to reply. Erasing the whole affair, the resignations of responsibility... the cynic in me thinks that it's a form of trolling.

I'm also of a mind that the site is a brand, not a political forum, and that in this particular instance protecting the brand is more important than free speech, and a hasty clean sweep and new slate are the only response that serves the site.

So what happened to the editorial oversight that protects the brand? How was such an op-ed piece allowed to go out on a site that's primarily about a niche of geek culture and providing a space for like-minded fans to 'hang out'?

Does anyone think that the response was the correct one, or should it have been handled differently?
 
It's pretty sad how all of this has played out. When I was first getting into anime, Ross & UKA was the first site that I reached out to before I ended up making AUKN instead. For him to quit UKA is sad, as is the lack of nuance and discussion when arguments like this are carried out in public on social media sites like Twitter. I'm pretty sure that if given the chance, Ross could better explain his point of view. As @Just Passing Through alluded to above, taking down the podcast was probably a mistake as it limits the discussion this so badly needed. Also, in hindsight, they needed another personality on the podcast to represent and defend the things that they were criticising.
 
Having read back through some of the Twitter fallout this morning, I'm guessing that the perceived damage to the brand was just too severe to leave things snowballing further.

I imagine that the current status quo is a temporary measure for damage control and things will settle down over time. A soul-seeking article about the podcast examining it in a more balanced way and acknowledging/owning the issue would probably serve well. Though on a personal note, respect to those who stood up for their personal beliefs in standing down. That must have been a very tough decision; the team over there had some great people on it who had poured their energy into the site for years and years.

R
 
I've not listened to the podcast as it really does sound like it wouldn't be of interest to me, but I have followed the situation overall. My take away from it is that such politically charged comments/discussion shouldn't really have been the focus of what has otherwise always just been an entertaining podcast about anime - Admittedly I've not listened to it since Andy left to join AL and Elliot wasn't involved in the new edition, but I wasn't under the impression that had changed. I'm not saying political discussion shouldn't be had at all, but I do think the way they went about it was obviously not the right way. They just isolated the auidence they serve and offended those who follow the sites they dog-piled.

Ultimately those who left have my upmost respect for standing by their feelings and standing down. Had I been in their shoes I know it would have been an incredibly difficult decision to make to leave a site and community you've been part of for so long.

I hope the site can build itself back up now, although I do wonder where they can go from here. While Ross might have stepped down it's only as an editor-in-chef and he obviously still owns the place, which I'm sure might be off-putting to newbie writers wanting to potentially get involved. It might not have been that obvious what had gone on, especially with the podcast being pulled, but if you followed both UKA and Andrew Partridge then you're basically guaranteed to know... It probably doesn't help that Seb was also a part of the podcast and has now taken over. Even if he didn't necessarily agree with the arguments, it doesn't look great from the outside. ^^;

I also broadly agree that the podcast shouldn't have been pulled, especially when they haven't really done any damage control in regards to it and what it contained beyond Ross stepping down which was obviously pressured by so many other members of staff calling it quits. Again though, not having listened to it I can't 100% say if it was right or wrong so just an observation more than anything,
 
I haven't listed to the podcast fully but I was given samples of what was going on. I know that podcasts have a disclaimer that the views/expressions are of their own and not the site in general, but the topic that they went through was not the best idea especially when they were using sources that probably aren't the best to reference. The fact that they were even referencing other sites like AnimeFeminist in a negative light didn't help their discussion either, for example as others mentioned they were commenting about AF uses Patreon when they themselves have one also.

I feel that Ross stepping down was the right choice as a result of what happened on both the podcast and the twitter fiasco, but I also feel sorry for the other five staff members who had to leave as a result of all this so I wish them the best of luck for whatever venture they go through next.

On another note I did like how I was referenced for the news reporting on AUKN by being "good, ridiculously good".

(Disclaimer: I am not the best person when it comes to politics and equality topics so I apologise if my post goes the wrong way.)
 
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