Gemsy-chan
Shrine Maiden
Vic Mignogna Replaced in Morose Mononokean English Dub Cast (Update)
#MeToo has made it to the anime industry.
#MeToo has made it to the anime industry.
Popular US voice actor(s) are accused of showering underaged fans with unwanted affection
- Thread starter Gemsy-chan
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Captaaainuniverse
Time-Traveller
Was watching a couple of videos on that earlier.
Until someone can investigate it what’s he done?
Apparently these kind of people are often agnostic or atheist. If they don’t need proof to believe something, why haven’t they gone back to religion?
DragoStark
School Idol
'Far From Perfect': Fans Recount Unwanted Affection from Voice Actor Vic Mignogna
This article has some more info on the matter.
The consequences of his behaviour has finally caught up to him. People have called him out long before now, but this time enough people have listened for companies to decide that no, they do not want to be associated with this bad publicity.
Y'all joking that #metoo has hit the anime industry now but I'm all for it if it means creeps that sexually harass people are called out and suffer the consequences for it.
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
Wow.... I mean wow....
there is photo evidence, witness statements confirming stories and more. But yes FUNi should also investigate and give a fair open investigation. But saying people believe allegations like religion is deeply insulting
ayase
State Alchemist
After all that’s gone on and continues to go on with all these accusations I’ve taken the decision to have no opinion. Let the courts handle it. Sexual harassment and assault are awful things and should be dealt with, but I find myself dismayed by the taking of sides by people who have no knowledge of the situation, either because they’re fans of the accused or because they’re inclined to believe all men are pigs. I don’t know, I wasn’t there. I’m not going to be party to condemning or defending someone for something when I have no idea whether they’re guilty or innocent any more than I can take sides in who’s to blame for a car crash I didn’t witness.
The media/social media reaction alone, which has shifted in recent years from sensationalist tabloids to twitter lynch mobs (neither of which I would consider reliable sources) makes me wonder if people shouldn’t be anonymous until proven guilty of ANY crime. It might at least make the atmosphere in society less toxic.
The media/social media reaction alone, which has shifted in recent years from sensationalist tabloids to twitter lynch mobs (neither of which I would consider reliable sources) makes me wonder if people shouldn’t be anonymous until proven guilty of ANY crime. It might at least make the atmosphere in society less toxic.
Captaaainuniverse
Time-Traveller
Last thing I’m saying about it here, I am trying to be on the fence myself, but I’d rather believe him over accusers, it always seems to happen when someone is a success, it goes on for years apparently but only when they are too big to fail do the crabs drag the other back down into the bucket. He’s losing work for something that hasn’t been investigated, and I’ve heard Twitter is actually split on it, a few speak out and say they’re just con goers, who’ve asked him for hugs and pictures, he was a popular guy before this, then the other side sound like the only thing rougher then his palms was the look in his eye, it’s hard to know who to believe, crying wolf tires people out.
If he is some creep, I will honestly have egg on my face. This “listener” we have in work now said I might enjoy going to cons, but if it’s full of the type of people whose just accuse you, I don’t want to go
In addition to the Vic Mignogna controversy another VA Todd Haberkorn has also been accused of misconduct with fans. He posted a (now deleted) Facebook message about the situation and an experience he allegedly had.
(1) Todd Haberkorn - Strangely, the post was removed. Here it is...
Personally I don’t really have an opinion on these cases. As a student journalist I’ve learned to keep a neutral and objective view on stories like this until there’s a conclusion of sorts- I’ll be following the situation to see where it leads for now.
(1) Todd Haberkorn - Strangely, the post was removed. Here it is...
Personally I don’t really have an opinion on these cases. As a student journalist I’ve learned to keep a neutral and objective view on stories like this until there’s a conclusion of sorts- I’ll be following the situation to see where it leads for now.
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D1tchd1gger
Shrine Maiden
sniper_samurai
Railgun
While I haven't seen him acting inappropriately to con goers he was a monumental jackass to staff at Eirtakon in 2008, blowing up at the slightest of things. I did find it a bit concerning though when he entered the pub quiz on the Friday night on a table consisting of only himself and quite a number of young female con attendees.
Your description of journalism and the industry is sadly pretty accurate a lot of the time. There are good honest journalists out there though (I’d say I’m honest but my pieces are mediocre at best, though I am my own biggest critic after all.)
ayase
State Alchemist
Exactly. The court of yellow journalism and the court of public opinion are not courts I would wish to find myself tried and convicted in, so I can't in good conscience support the same happening to anyone else. The recent unverified list of private con-going individuals accused of sexual harassment was the last straw on this issue for me - Nobody should be subject to that and nobody should have been so totally irresponsible as to publish it. If someone has legitimate grievances over sexual harassment, they should be taken to and dealt with by the relevant authorities. With something that is for all intents and purposes gossip acting as arbiter, who even knows where legitimate pursuit of someone as a sexual/romantic interest ends and sexual harassment begins any more? If people aren't confronted about their behaviour at the time, will they even know they've done anything wrong until their name shows up on the internet naming and shaming them? Is this sort of thing going to help anybody?
I'll split this off so we can debate it without derailing too much but please be aware that this is a touchy subject and I'm putting my moderator hat on fast if it gets too disrespectful.
The Vic Mignogna story comes from ANN's recent feature on the sustained reports from dozens of unrelated parties over a long period of time specifically revolving around Vic. There are photographs and screenshots: 'Far From Perfect': Fans Recount Unwanted Affection from Voice Actor Vic Mignogna
It then developed into a social media storm where a ton of his colleagues, male and female, came out and said they also have serious problems with his behaviour. I'm not a fan of US voice acting but there are some very well established names in the list of people voicing concerns: Vic Mignogna No Longer a Member of RWBY Cast
And now it seems that enough people are listening to concerns that he's losing more roles, bringing us up to date: Vic Mignogna Replaced in Morose Mononokean English Dub Cast (Update)
Given the overwhelming weight of evidence, including a video from a male colleague of Vic's explaining why he feels his actions are not ok, I'm inclined to believe that he does have issues with respecting personal space (and respecting the humanity of con staff). The real problem is that everyone has been telling him to stop for a decade or so and he hasn't. That kind of demolishes his defense, which is basically 'I like being touchy-feely and shouty and it's your problem if you unreasonably don't like it'. He's a grown-up and responsible for his actions, and it's not rocket science that continuing to do creepy stuff people ask you to stop will only work as long as you can keep using your popularity and contacts as a shield.
I don't know whether he's actually guilty of any criminal activity, as that's a separate issue. The fact that he is creepy and making kids (and adult colleagues) uncomfortable has been abundantly proven, and if that's enough for companies to not want him associated with their (relatively) family-friendly brands and events then it's good that people are finally being listened to. After at least a decade of being ignored.
Moving on.
One of the examples of Vic's creeping was a story about how he intimidated a cosplayer by making lewd references to an incident of non-consensual intimacy with an anonymous voice actor (subsequently revealed to be Todd Haberkorn as he launched a protest against her, deliberately naming himself as the other party): (1) Todd Haberkorn - Strangely, the post was removed. Here it is...
The other person named in the Todd Haberkorn story has also spoken up - and despite being his friend, he's not siding with Todd:
This is very much an issue of 'he said, she said' and only the people involved really know what happened, but the general message is that these voice actors have a lot of power in the convention circuit and there is a lot of pushback against any criticism. The accusers are not the ones in a position of power.
I would personally consider a neutral stance to be, well, taking a neutral stance and listening, as some people are. Not explicitly declaring solidarity with people who are being accused of being creeps just because they're more famous or you hate women/feminists/#MeToo by default or some other reason. If you're doing that, which is your right as a free-thinking human being, please at least recognise that you are not taking a neutral stance.
(I'm not taking an especially neutral stance myself, especially on the matter of Vic, but that's because I've read all of the complaints from industry professionals, not just fans, and I can't see any reason for some of these big names to want to bring Vic down and fabricate such a lot of evidence. I even watched his 'apology' video and saw the 'innocent' manipulation at work. And the victim-blaming in this thread was bugging me, so I'm going to stand against that outright.)
R
The Vic Mignogna story comes from ANN's recent feature on the sustained reports from dozens of unrelated parties over a long period of time specifically revolving around Vic. There are photographs and screenshots: 'Far From Perfect': Fans Recount Unwanted Affection from Voice Actor Vic Mignogna
It then developed into a social media storm where a ton of his colleagues, male and female, came out and said they also have serious problems with his behaviour. I'm not a fan of US voice acting but there are some very well established names in the list of people voicing concerns: Vic Mignogna No Longer a Member of RWBY Cast
And now it seems that enough people are listening to concerns that he's losing more roles, bringing us up to date: Vic Mignogna Replaced in Morose Mononokean English Dub Cast (Update)
Given the overwhelming weight of evidence, including a video from a male colleague of Vic's explaining why he feels his actions are not ok, I'm inclined to believe that he does have issues with respecting personal space (and respecting the humanity of con staff). The real problem is that everyone has been telling him to stop for a decade or so and he hasn't. That kind of demolishes his defense, which is basically 'I like being touchy-feely and shouty and it's your problem if you unreasonably don't like it'. He's a grown-up and responsible for his actions, and it's not rocket science that continuing to do creepy stuff people ask you to stop will only work as long as you can keep using your popularity and contacts as a shield.
I don't know whether he's actually guilty of any criminal activity, as that's a separate issue. The fact that he is creepy and making kids (and adult colleagues) uncomfortable has been abundantly proven, and if that's enough for companies to not want him associated with their (relatively) family-friendly brands and events then it's good that people are finally being listened to. After at least a decade of being ignored.
Moving on.
One of the examples of Vic's creeping was a story about how he intimidated a cosplayer by making lewd references to an incident of non-consensual intimacy with an anonymous voice actor (subsequently revealed to be Todd Haberkorn as he launched a protest against her, deliberately naming himself as the other party): (1) Todd Haberkorn - Strangely, the post was removed. Here it is...
The other person named in the Todd Haberkorn story has also spoken up - and despite being his friend, he's not siding with Todd:
This is very much an issue of 'he said, she said' and only the people involved really know what happened, but the general message is that these voice actors have a lot of power in the convention circuit and there is a lot of pushback against any criticism. The accusers are not the ones in a position of power.
I would personally consider a neutral stance to be, well, taking a neutral stance and listening, as some people are. Not explicitly declaring solidarity with people who are being accused of being creeps just because they're more famous or you hate women/feminists/#MeToo by default or some other reason. If you're doing that, which is your right as a free-thinking human being, please at least recognise that you are not taking a neutral stance.
(I'm not taking an especially neutral stance myself, especially on the matter of Vic, but that's because I've read all of the complaints from industry professionals, not just fans, and I can't see any reason for some of these big names to want to bring Vic down and fabricate such a lot of evidence. I even watched his 'apology' video and saw the 'innocent' manipulation at work. And the victim-blaming in this thread was bugging me, so I'm going to stand against that outright.)
R
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ayase
State Alchemist
As no particular fan of English dubs I certainly have no horse in the specific Vic Mignogna situation, but by nature as a harshly critical cynic of humanity in general, I don't really trust anybody to tell the truth in a non self-serving way, accusers or accused. Especially people I don't personally know, doubly especially people on the internet I don't know.
I wouldn't wish to blame genuine victims for any kind of sexual harassment or assault, but I have no way of personally knowing if these people really are victims, which is where recourse to the courts seems to make the most sense to me - It would mean better and more qualified investigative minds on the case more likely to find out the truth than the twitter mob, at any rate. If there's no legal case to answer then I don't really know what to say - It's about freedom of association in that case (and it seems like in this particular case, people already know what he's like and choose to associate with him or not based on that, as is their right) so what do people actually want done?
I wouldn't wish to blame genuine victims for any kind of sexual harassment or assault, but I have no way of personally knowing if these people really are victims, which is where recourse to the courts seems to make the most sense to me - It would mean better and more qualified investigative minds on the case more likely to find out the truth than the twitter mob, at any rate. If there's no legal case to answer then I don't really know what to say - It's about freedom of association in that case (and it seems like in this particular case, people already know what he's like and choose to associate with him or not based on that, as is their right) so what do people actually want done?
Just Passing Through
The Wildcard
Right or wrong, guilt or innocence, that’s not something I want to comment on, but what does turn my stomach is the glee with which ANN are chronicling every step of someone’s downfall, and enabling that glee in its forum users. What started as trial by media is quickly becoming a social media mob mentality.
I had hoped that we’d avoid this topic, but I guess it’s too big to ignore now. Just remember that libel laws are a lot stronger in the UK, and we don’t yet live in a country where freedom of speech means abrogation of responsibility for our words.
I had hoped that we’d avoid this topic, but I guess it’s too big to ignore now. Just remember that libel laws are a lot stronger in the UK, and we don’t yet live in a country where freedom of speech means abrogation of responsibility for our words.
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
I think the big thing is sexual Assualt is usually in court a he said she said, sexual harassment is even harder to prove as well.
Companies are replacing him that in itself is news for whatever reason they are replacing him, him being replaced is news. I was more surprised no body cared that RT had replaced him yesterday.
It does also raise questions about Broly and otherstuff. As I cant deny even if manga are a third party in this them promoting something with him in the starring role as kinda sad.
Companies are replacing him that in itself is news for whatever reason they are replacing him, him being replaced is news. I was more surprised no body cared that RT had replaced him yesterday.
It does also raise questions about Broly and otherstuff. As I cant deny even if manga are a third party in this them promoting something with him in the starring role as kinda sad.
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KingJimmeh
Magical Girl
No-one has to employ or invite any voice actor, and if there is evidence of enough of them being a creep or handling themselves in a way (that while not illegal) to damaging to their company and rep or could cause harm to other people, then let them go.
I'm not saying blackball them completely, but just until it seems like there has been time to reflect and show self-improvement.
I'm not saying blackball them completely, but just until it seems like there has been time to reflect and show self-improvement.
I don't think in Vic's case that anyone has accused him of breaking the law, so the courts wouldn't be able to do anything in the first place. He used his social power to act in a harmful way and that social power is what shielded him, as shown by the rabid reactions of some of his fans, so on that front I think the tipping of the scales against him after years of sustained complaints from con organisers, fans, fellow voice actors and other industry members is little more than a removal of that shield. They can't stop him grabbing people as he has been photographed and videoed doing (and even admitted directly), but they can encourage people to say no or refuse him positions in family friendly environments. I'm confident this isn't going to harm his Christian CD business or his indie film projects; he has creative and tonal control there.
It is definitely true that there is a sensationalist aspect to the reporting, which is also why I hesitated to weigh in myself. I imagine the reason for it being such big news is that ANN is proud they broke the story and milking that Internet fame for all it's worth; nobody's hands are perfectly clean.
Since it was mentioned I will also say that I view things like publicising a list of harmful con attendees as being a lot worse. There are good reasons why con staff would want to bar attendees on flimsy evidence for their own reasons, but that should absolutely be kept private between con organisers and not circulated as rabble rousing fodder. It endangers victims (who may be culprits) and culprits (who can be victims) without discrimination, and ultimately has no value to the wider community.
I have been personal witness to a fair amount of dodginess in the con scene myself (especially in my teens...) and honestly, I believe nearly every gross or melodramatic thing I hear because I've seen how readily things go that way. It feels like no big US con is complete these days without news stories about arrests for things young teens shouldn't be dealing with and I do think it's reasonable for private organisers to bar people. It is absolutely not reasonable to drag them and their victims through the mud to stir up cheap drama. In Vic's case, it feels as though it's necessary to bring it out into the wider community if he's steadfastly ignored all previous warnings as multiple professionals have claimed. He sounds more worried about the repercussions than other people's feelings even in his own scripted apology video.
R
It is definitely true that there is a sensationalist aspect to the reporting, which is also why I hesitated to weigh in myself. I imagine the reason for it being such big news is that ANN is proud they broke the story and milking that Internet fame for all it's worth; nobody's hands are perfectly clean.
Since it was mentioned I will also say that I view things like publicising a list of harmful con attendees as being a lot worse. There are good reasons why con staff would want to bar attendees on flimsy evidence for their own reasons, but that should absolutely be kept private between con organisers and not circulated as rabble rousing fodder. It endangers victims (who may be culprits) and culprits (who can be victims) without discrimination, and ultimately has no value to the wider community.
I have been personal witness to a fair amount of dodginess in the con scene myself (especially in my teens...) and honestly, I believe nearly every gross or melodramatic thing I hear because I've seen how readily things go that way. It feels like no big US con is complete these days without news stories about arrests for things young teens shouldn't be dealing with and I do think it's reasonable for private organisers to bar people. It is absolutely not reasonable to drag them and their victims through the mud to stir up cheap drama. In Vic's case, it feels as though it's necessary to bring it out into the wider community if he's steadfastly ignored all previous warnings as multiple professionals have claimed. He sounds more worried about the repercussions than other people's feelings even in his own scripted apology video.
R
ayase
State Alchemist
Which is why it's even more important it's taken to task and a stop is put to it as and when it happens, rather than months or years after the fact in a tweet or a facebook post.
I think if I'm introspective about this (instead of lashing out at any particular party in these cases themselves) this is the thing that gets me the most heated about this topic - I do think sexual assault and harassment is awful and I don't think people should be allowed to get away with it but as an admirer of strength in people, particularly in women, I feel like the strongest thing to do is to stop it there and then whether it's crossing the line into illegality or not. Tell people off for doing or attempting it. Don't let them do it.
Rui mentioned about relative positions of power - I believe with enough strength of will that doesn't matter. People can (and should) stand up to anyone victimising them and be as strong as they are. My personal bias, which I will admit to, is that I don't have a lot of sympathy for perceived weaknesses in people. I certainly don't like people who prey on those weaker than them, but then somewhere deep down I do also feel a slight amount of disdain for people who allow themselves to be preyed on. That probably makes me a horrible person, but I'm too hardened to feel much sympathy for anyone any more or care what anyone thinks of me. Do I at least get points for being honest?
Just Passing Through
The Wildcard
This thread wouldn’t be complete today without a Liam Neeson reference.
Yes, I think it's the only way to have a debate!
In my case I've been in some dubious situations before and I know the reason why I didn't do anything at the time. I like to think that I'm a pretty fierce person now, but we all find our feet at different speeds and I was a really, really dumb teen. I wasn't capable of standing up for myself until I figured a lot of stuff out about the world which didn't fall into place until my 20s. It's a bit embarrassing to say that I wasn't emotionally mature way past the age when it's expected but I wasn't (and a lot of these kids are much, much younger). It's super-easy for me now to say that I'd just attack someone who made me feel exposed (or worse) but honestly, back then I'd have talked the talk then frozen like a deer in the headlights if anyone had turned on me.
I haven't been in any situations as bad as those being mentioned because I've always had other people looking out for me and socialise way less than is normal, but if it can happen to plain old me it can happen to anyone. I can't even count the number of times I've been in situations I subconsciously felt were wrong and dangerous but went along with them anyway because I'd been conditioned not to be a 'bitch' or 'unreasonable' or speak out against the dominant culture. Looking back, I was an absolute idiot for going along with some of the stuff I was too shy to speak out against.
I think that's why I'm so invested in the sense that things are finally changing. It's important for future Ruis to know that the grown-ups don't always know best and that being a 'bitch' is totally ok if it means avoiding bad situations. That way we end up with more strong-willed people who find their confidence early enough to speak out, and knock this awkward transitionary phase on the head.
R
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