Fate discussion

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

Dannielle said:
Shoot, you're right about Prison School.

Oh, okay yeah..different companies! that makes sense, doh. I'm somewhat anxious for A/L with Chaos Dragon though, it's not going down well online but the show IS full of edge and edge appeals to the masses.

Are you kidding, did you not see the ANN forums for Fate/Stay Night: UBW? Thou shalt not criticise Nasu...

Type-Mooners will be all over Chaos Dragon, but from what I've heard it's not as bad as reviews would suggest.
 
Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

Buzz201 said:
Dannielle said:
Shoot, you're right about Prison School.

Oh, okay yeah..different companies! that makes sense, doh. I'm somewhat anxious for A/L with Chaos Dragon though, it's not going down well online but the show IS full of edge and edge appeals to the masses.

Are you kidding, did you not see the ANN forums for Fate/Stay Night: UBW? Thou shalt not criticise Nasu...

Type-Mooners will be all over Chaos Dragon, but from what I've heard it's not as bad as reviews would suggest.

I have not, but color me intrigued...

I'm basing my opinion on the first episode alone which isn't exactly the greatest judge (3 episode rule and all that) & the reactions over on Reddit, interesting to hear there maybe some improvement on the first episode.
 
Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

Dannielle said:
I have not, but color me intrigued...

I'm basing my opinion on the first episode alone which isn't exactly the greatest judge (3 episode rule and all that) & the reactions over on Reddit, interesting to hear there maybe some improvement on the first episode.

ANN's reviewer criticised the show (F/SN UBW) overall, and I believe in some of her reviews she mentioned elements she found sexist, and it trigged a completely disproportionate, insanely aggressive firestorm from Type-Moon fans pissed off that their beloved work was being criticised. Some of the complainers also had a distinctly anti-feminist vibe to them, and the entire thing made me wary of enjoying any Type-Moon related work, just in case anybody considered me guilty by association.

I was basing my comments based on what two or three readers of this site had said about the first couple of episodes, but it sounds solidly disappointing, and I saw a gif of that opening shot, the frame rate was so low, it genuinely hurt my eyes.
 
Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

Buzz201 said:
ANN's reviewer criticised the show (F/SN UBW) overall, and I believe in some of her reviews she mentioned elements she found sexist, and it trigged a completely disproportionate, insanely aggressive firestorm from Type-Moon fans pissed off that their beloved work was being criticised. Some of the complainers also had a distinctly anti-feminist vibe to them, and the entire thing made me wary of enjoying any Type-Moon related work, just in case anybody considered me guilty by association.

So some stupid fanboys' attitude has affected your enjoyment of anything Type-Moon related? B-but.. how? Whether you like something or not I don't get why what some other people do/think about it should affect you in any way.
I haven't gotten to watching F/SN UBW yet so I don't have an opinion on it, but I recall seeing quite a lot of fans stating their disappointment about it in some thread. And they weren't very optimistic about the Heaven's Feels movies either -I think it had to do with some announcement about the staff that would be working on them or something, I don't really follow that kind of news. The point is, there obviously isn't just one side to it (there never is) so generalising about a certain group isn't a very sensible thing to do.

Buzz201 said:
I was basing my comments based on what two or three readers of this site had said about the first couple of episodes, but it sounds solidly disappointing, and I saw a gif of that opening shot, the frame rate was so low, it genuinely hurt my eyes.

I don't know what Chaos Dragon is but I doubt judging its framerate based on a gif is reasonable :p
 
Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

BlackStrat said:
So some stupid fanboys' attitude has affected your enjoyment of anything Type-Moon related? B-but.. how? Whether you like something or not I don't get why what some other people do/think about it should affect you in any way.
I haven't gotten to watching F/SN UBW yet so I don't have an opinion on it, but I recall seeing quite a lot of fans stating their disappointment about it in some thread. And they weren't very optimistic about the Heaven's Feels movies either -I think it had to do with some announcement about the staff that would be working on them or something, I don't really follow that kind of news. The point is, there obviously isn't just one side to it (there never is) so generalising about a certain group isn't a very sensible thing to do.

I don't think I quite wrote what I meant, at the time I was reading Fate/Zero (I've now finished), and considering watching the rest of the franchise. I enjoyed Fate/Zero, but quite frankly their behaviour was so off-putting I'm not sure I want to give the rest of the series a try. I guess it was a sort of "if these completely messed up people like the work, maybe the work itself is messed up" thing, and there's far too much good stuff for me to waste time on stuff like that.

I'll probably watch the first F/SN if the DVD ever goes cheap though, just to see what the fuss is about.

BlackStrat said:
I don't know what Chaos Dragon is but I doubt judging its framerate based on a gif is reasonable :p

Maybe not, but other people have commented on the low framerate of the shot, and everybody else that saw it acted like it was accurate. My plan is to give it a shot when Viewster uploads it, as I like at least some of the people involved, and I've been assured basing a TV show on a specific role-playing game that was actually played isn't as ridiculous as it sounds...
 
Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

Fair enough. Too bad you just finished reading F/Z, its adaptation is considered the best of the (animated) fate franchise by most (assuming you've read it but haven't watched it..?)
 
Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

BlackStrat said:
Fair enough. Too bad you just finished reading F/Z, its adaptation is considered the best of the (animated) fate franchise by most (assuming you've read it but haven't watched it..?)

I started watching the first episode, it wound me up too much to last more 11 minutes, and the translation of the novel I read made the "Sakura Matō worm-related bit" slightly more ambiguous than the anime, and to be honest had I realised what was actually happening during that scene I probably wouldn't have continued past it.

Not only is that bit completely disgusting, but it's also completely pointless. It adds nothing to story and occurs for basically no reason.
 
Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

A lot of Type Moon stuff is pretty icky if you get into it, but I suppose a good deal of that comes with the Visual Novel territory.
 
Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

Buzz201 said:
BlackStrat said:
So some stupid fanboys' attitude has affected your enjoyment of anything Type-Moon related? B-but.. how? Whether you like something or not I don't get why what some other people do/think about it should affect you in any way.
I haven't gotten to watching F/SN UBW yet so I don't have an opinion on it, but I recall seeing quite a lot of fans stating their disappointment about it in some thread. And they weren't very optimistic about the Heaven's Feels movies either -I think it had to do with some announcement about the staff that would be working on them or something, I don't really follow that kind of news. The point is, there obviously isn't just one side to it (there never is) so generalising about a certain group isn't a very sensible thing to do.

I don't think I quite wrote what I meant, at the time I was reading Fate/Zero (I've now finished), and considering watching the rest of the franchise. I enjoyed Fate/Zero, but quite frankly their behaviour was so off-putting I'm not sure I want to give the rest of the series a try. I guess it was a sort of "if these completely messed up people like the work, maybe the work itself is messed up" thing, and there's far too much good stuff for me to waste time on stuff like that.

I'll probably watch the first F/SN if the DVD ever goes cheap though, just to see what the fuss is about.

BlackStrat said:
I don't know what Chaos Dragon is but I doubt judging its framerate based on a gif is reasonable :p

Maybe not, but other people have commented on the low framerate of the shot, and everybody else that saw it acted like it was accurate. My plan is to give it a shot when Viewster uploads it, as I like at least some of the people involved, and I've been assured basing a TV show on a specific role-playing game that was actually played isn't as ridiculous as it sounds...
You really should have read the stay night VN first.
 
Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

black1blade said:
You really should have read the stay night VN first.

Which was another thing that annoys me about F/SN fanboys...

Somehow, none of them seem to have worked out that constantly telling people to read the VN is just annoying (especially if it's to try and solve flaws they found in an adaptation) and only makes people not want to read it out of spite?

That said, I was considering it, and I have time off soon, so maybe I'll give it a try then.
 
Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

One piece of media should never have to depend on another - if a TV show is truly great, it should deliver all its nuances without required reading of something else.

Also, you could argue that TV and a novel are always going to be vastly different - let's be honest, we're never going to see a TV show that manages to capture every single line of interior monologue or description from a piece of source material, so it starts to become academic as to which is 'better'.
 
Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

While I totally agree on the fact that the TV show shouldn't rely on its source material to be good, I don't think that's what he meant but rather that F/SN should be read before F/Z. Emphasis on the order, not the 'read' part which I assume is only there because Buzz said he read the F/Z novel and didn't watch it.

I'm just gonna quote this
reddit said:
But because it was originally a prequel meant to be read after all three routes of F/SN, it ends up spoiling many twists of the VN. The routes suffering most from the spoilers are Fate and HF, UBW is barely affected. And to enjoy Fate/Zero like the author originally intended and understand all the references, hints, and even the ending, you'll need knowledge from F/SN, particularly from HF.
 
Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

To this day I'd probably stil recommend people watch the original FSN anime from 2006 first, even though the animation is inferior - chiefly because it feels like it was designed for a younger audience so is a lot easier to get in to. Then after that, go and watch Fate Zero and then UBW.

If in doubt, trust in the original broadcast order - that's my motto anyway.
 
Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

IncendiaryLemon said:
That probably explains why I didn't really understand the ending of Fate/Zero...

I think I got the ending (obviously major F/Z spoilers), but I finished a few weeks ago, and I'm not good with names, so some of this may be slightly mudled...
There's the big fight at the end, and the Grail converses with Kiritsugu, wherein the Grail shows him the logical conclusion of his "destroying parts of the world to save it" mentality is to kill everyone except his family. He realises that he'd falsely put all his hope in the Grail, and the Grail wasn't the answer he was looking for, so instead of trying to win the fight, he aims to destroy the Grail, and in the process triggers the mass destruction of Fuyuki.

Kotomine Kirei and Archer are the only partnership remaining, so they are technically the victors, this causes Kirei to interpret (potentially misinterpret) the Grail's attempted destruction of Fuyuki as his true purpose in life.

Kariya dies, but before he dies hallucinates winning the Grail and saving the girl, in reality no such event happens.

I've probably completely messed that up though. I do remember thinking the ending Waver was given didn't make that much sense, he suddenly realises he actually likes and wants to impress Alexander, what's up with that?
 
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Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

I always interpreted it as the Grail granted Kirei's wish, but Kireri didn't have a wish, so it kind of looked inside him and found he had some kind of deep desire for destruction and thus caused that large blast. What you say sounds more logical. I was also a little confused to what happened to Sabre. She seemed to go back to her own time period or something at the end, it's quite vague. I assume that is addressed in UBW seeing as she returns.
 
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Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

IncendiaryLemon said:
I always interpreted it as the Grail granted Kirei's wish, but Kireri didn't have a wish, so it kind of looked inside him and found he had some kind of deep desire for destruction and thus caused that large blast. What you say sounds more logical. I was also a little confused to what happened to Sabre. She seemed to go back to her own time period or something at the end, it's quite vague. I assume that is addressed in UBW seeing as she returns.

I believe it says earlier in the book, that there's something about the process of bringing them back that means hallucinations and dreams of the time when the Servant was previously alive are quite common. (Perhaps not dreams since servants don't sleep, but that type of thing. I think there's also something about them bleeding across between Master and Servant.) I believe Alexander/Waver has a hallucination about being on the beach with his men, at 'the end of the world'.

I can't remember specifics though and I just interpreted her ending as being a part of that. If you watched the anime, I could see how that would be confusing, because there's a lot of key concepts in the book that are explained as part of interior monologues, and when I was reading it I couldn't see how they get them all across to the viewer without narration or something.
 
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Re: Summer 2015 Legal Anime Streaming Thread

What Zero doesn't tell you is why the grail is like that. The zero anime was the first type moon thing I ever saw, I just wish that I had read the VN first because of all the spoilers.
 
I know this is a hot topic (see what I did there ;) ) of late so why not there be a thread for it. Maybe this can be the general type moon thread too.
 
Now that I've seen Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night: UBW, I've considered to start reading the Visual Novel soon. Given there are three routes how does it work exactly? Do you have a choice on which route you start with or does it change as you go along (like a lot of visual novels do)?
 
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