1.5 years for Uploader

Project-2501

Straw Hat Pirate
Tachi- said:
so why do we get charged to the hilt? because were a booming country who can afford it?

No, because you're shopping at the wrong places.

Anime DVDs can be bought for sub £10 and manga for sub £3.
 

Ryo Chan

Symphogear
Project-2501 said:
Tachi- said:
so why do we get charged to the hilt? because were a booming country who can afford it?

No, because you're shopping at the wrong places.

Anime DVDs can be bought for sub £10 and manga for sub £3.

where?

i've not seen any R1 under £14 other than on ebay
 

chaos

The Boss
Ryo Chan said:
...Dragonball Z saga's are only £25
Where?!?!

Ryo Chan said:
Project-2501 said:
Tachi- said:
so why do we get charged to the hilt? because were a booming country who can afford it?
No, because you're shopping at the wrong places.
Anime DVDs can be bought for sub £10 and manga for sub £3.
where?
i've not seen any R1 under £14 other than on ebay

I have a nice collection I've made with some DVD's that I've got for as low as 1 quid on anime-on-line.com , amazon offers, amazon market place, play offers... There are several series going for under 20, "Oh they must those crap series" one might say. But we have GITS first and second gig for under 17 quids, Naruto series 2 part 2 for 12, etc... There are great anime DVD's for under 5 quid, including the second appleseed, paprika, and several ghibli. I've only spent 5 minutes looking....
 

Ryo Chan

Symphogear
chaos said:
Ryo Chan said:
...Dragonball Z saga's are only £25
Where?!?!

up1, i've just bought 5 saga's from them
chaos said:
Ryo Chan said:
Project-2501 said:
Tachi- said:
so why do we get charged to the hilt? because were a booming country who can afford it?
No, because you're shopping at the wrong places.
Anime DVDs can be bought for sub £10 and manga for sub £3.
where?
i've not seen any R1 under £14 other than on ebay

I have a nice collection I've made with some DVD's that I've got for as low as 1 quid on anime-on-line.com , amazon offers, amazon market place, play offers... There are several series going for under 20, "Oh they must those crap series" one might say. But we have GITS first and second gig for under 17 quids, Naruto series 2 part 2 for 12, etc... There are great anime DVD's for under 5 quid, including the second appleseed, paprika, and several ghibli. I've only spent 5 minutes looking....

i think we're talking new releases, not shows that have been out a year
 

Project-2501

Straw Hat Pirate
Pani Poni is £9-10 per vol and thats quite a new release, last couple of months.

Anything just released will cost more, fact of life, anime or not. Wait a couple of months and then bag a bargin.
 

rick

Great Teacher
R2 singles are somewhat cheaper than they used to be, often around the £10 marker as Project mentions. Shop around.

R1 singles on Up1 are £14, but are often a few quid cheaper on American sites.
 

MaxonTreik

Chuunibyou
Rui said:
Get a paper round or something? Or go for a cheaper hobby until your means improve? I don't earn all that much and can manage my budget easily enough to cope. I don't know where this delusion people have comes from that other fans are all loaded so it's ok to take your share of optional entertainment for free.
I know. My point is that not everyone has the time or the money to earn extra. I am not endorsing the piracy of licenced anime. Besides, I don't see the issue with fansubs. Sure the simultaneous airing of anime is going down legal avenues, but how is that different to fansubbing, really?
Gawyn said:
That argument simply doesn't stand up. Food and general upkeep are required. Anime is an optional luxury and is not required. If, after your common expenses, you can't afford anime (or any other luxury you could name) you simply do without it. There is absolutely no imperative forcing you to watch anime as there is with eating food so the excuse that "you couldn't afford to buy it" is invalid.
Ok then, you go live a life with no means of entertainment and tell me how it goes.
 

chaos

The Boss
Maxon said:
...
I know. My point is that not everyone has the time or the money to earn extra. I am not endorsing the piracy of licenced anime. Besides, I don't see the issue with fansubs. Sure the simultaneous airing of anime is going down legal avenues, but how is that different to fansubbing, really?
You will either have to pay a fee, a donation or something, or you will have ads in it. This way, the makers actually make some money over it.
 

arthur_webb

Adventurer
I don't see the fuss. Anime is free to air on TV in Japan, and Japanese people are just as free to record the shows to VCR for private use. The way I see it, fansubs simply extend that medium to a wider audience. I doubt many would put up much of a fuss if I decided to begin receiving Japanese TV to watch anime through whatever satellite system, or something.

Personally, I believe that more good than bad comes from fansubs. For starters, many potential viewers outside of Japan would never have been exposed to anime if it wasn't for fansubs. It's silly to deny the simple fact that much of the extra-Japan popularity for anime stems from initial exposure by old VHS fansubs in the 80s and 90s.

Furthermore, you've got the community aspect. I don't know about you guys, but I love the fact that through the internet and countless anime expositions and societies around the world, fans can share and enjoy their mutual love for a series. Currently, DVD releases simply can't parallel that, as worldwide concurrent releases aren't a possibility. Due to fansubs, a person living in Cornwall is able to discuss an anime episode with somewhere living in Peru, which only aired in Japan just the other day. I think that's just fantastic, really.

Also, who can possibly shy away from anime fansubs as a learning tool? Niche interest, perhaps, but there are so many people who exercise their knowledge of Japanese as a foreign language by creating, or even watching to an extent, fansubs. An opportunity to do the former isn't really available when using DVDs.

So, overall I see fansubs as being generally positive. They entertain, they connect, they interest and they teach.... I think.

Peace and love, man.
 

Voddas

Symphogear
It's true tho. It should only be illegal if the subs are sold. It's like mass lending of of a tv program. If I lent a VHS of last weeks "Top Gear" to a friend (not selling) I wouldn't class that as illegal activity. Obviously mass lending is different like, but even so, most fansubbers do it for fun/hobbies and not for profit.
 

Gawyn

Magical Girl
adamcube said:
I don't see the fuss. Anime is free to air on TV in Japan, and Japanese people are just as free to record the shows to VCR for private use. The way I see it, fansubs simply extend that medium to a wider audience. I doubt many would put up much of a fuss if I decided to begin receiving Japanese TV to watch anime through whatever satellite system, or something.
The major flaw in your argument is that somebody at some level is getting revenue for the anime being watched on TV be it through advertising or state-funded TV. There is absolutely no gain to anybody involved in that broadcast over fansubs downloaded via the internet other than the single solitary watch that produced the initial raw. If, directly or indirectly (through advertising or similar), the distributor/TV company was paid then it would be acceptable but as that is not the case there is no justification for it.
adamcube said:
Personally, I believe that more good than bad comes from fansubs. For starters, many potential viewers outside of Japan would never have been exposed to anime if it wasn't for fansubs. It's silly to deny the simple fact that much of the extra-Japan popularity for anime stems from initial exposure by old VHS fansubs in the 80s and 90s.
This is unproveable one way or the other. Certainly there are more people watching but if that significantly increases the number of people buying is debatable. You will often find untold numbers of people making many excuses as to why they won't buy a particular series when official English language versions become available, which makes me doubt that fansubs are positive. The apparent popularity of series is also a source of potential loss for distributors who licence an anime at a higher premium than would otherwise have been offered and then find the fanbase isn't quite as loyal as expected.
adamcube said:
Furthermore, you've got the community aspect. I don't know about you guys, but I love the fact that through the internet and countless anime expositions and societies around the world, fans can share and enjoy their mutual love for a series. Currently, DVD releases simply can't parallel that, as worldwide concurrent releases aren't a possibility. Due to fansubs, a person living in Cornwall is able to discuss an anime episode with somewhere living in Peru, which only aired in Japan just the other day. I think that's just fantastic, really.

Also, who can possibly shy away from anime fansubs as a learning tool? Niche interest, perhaps, but there are so many people who exercise their knowledge of Japanese as a foreign language by creating, or even watching to an extent, fansubs. An opportunity to do the former isn't really available when using DVDs.

So, overall I see fansubs as being generally positive. They entertain, they connect, they interest and they teach.... I think.

Peace and love, man.
These are hardly worthy justifications for fansubs. I doubt what educational value anime actually has and the communities are often full of people who are only fans because they can get for free what they should be paying for.
 

arthur_webb

Adventurer
Gawyn said:
adamcube said:
I don't see the fuss. Anime is free to air on TV in Japan, and Japanese people are just as free to record the shows to VCR for private use. The way I see it, fansubs simply extend that medium to a wider audience. I doubt many would put up much of a fuss if I decided to begin receiving Japanese TV to watch anime through whatever satellite system, or something.
The major flaw in your argument is that somebody at some level is getting revenue for the anime being watched on TV be it through advertising or state-funded TV. There is absolutely no gain to anybody involved in that broadcast over fansubs downloaded via the internet other than the single solitary watch that produced the initial raw. If, directly or indirectly (through advertising or similar), the distributor/TV company was paid then it would be acceptable but as that is not the case there is no justification for it.
adamcube said:
Personally, I believe that more good than bad comes from fansubs. For starters, many potential viewers outside of Japan would never have been exposed to anime if it wasn't for fansubs. It's silly to deny the simple fact that much of the extra-Japan popularity for anime stems from initial exposure by old VHS fansubs in the 80s and 90s.
This is unproveable one way or the other. Certainly there are more people watching but if that significantly increases the number of people buying is debatable. You will often find untold numbers of people making many excuses as to why they won't buy a particular series when official English language versions become available, which makes me doubt that fansubs are positive. The apparent popularity of series is also a source of potential loss for distributors who licence an anime at a higher premium than would otherwise have been offered and then find the fanbase isn't quite as loyal as expected.
adamcube said:
Furthermore, you've got the community aspect. I don't know about you guys, but I love the fact that through the internet and countless anime expositions and societies around the world, fans can share and enjoy their mutual love for a series. Currently, DVD releases simply can't parallel that, as worldwide concurrent releases aren't a possibility. Due to fansubs, a person living in Cornwall is able to discuss an anime episode with somewhere living in Peru, which only aired in Japan just the other day. I think that's just fantastic, really.

Also, who can possibly shy away from anime fansubs as a learning tool? Niche interest, perhaps, but there are so many people who exercise their knowledge of Japanese as a foreign language by creating, or even watching to an extent, fansubs. An opportunity to do the former isn't really available when using DVDs.

So, overall I see fansubs as being generally positive. They entertain, they connect, they interest and they teach.... I think.

Peace and love, man.
These are hardly worthy justifications for fansubs. I doubt what educational value anime actually has and the communities are often full of people who are only fans because they can get for free what they should be paying for.

You counter with some interesting points. However, I am not defending fansubs within the scope of a profit market. As with all free forms of distribution for copyrighted media, monetary gain is always going to lose out. Sure, Gawyn, fansubs aren't a lucrative venture.

What I'm trying to get at though, is that money shouldn't be, and hopefully isn't, the only factor when debating fansubs. If it were, I might have argued that fansubs created the popularity that fuelled the existing markets. But, as you've already pointed out, that's a difficult claim to verify.

However, I don't agree with you brandishing my final two points as invalid. I'm a firm believer that the community is entirely important when consumer media is concerned. Besides, you generalising this community as a bunch of cheap-skates comes across as being a touch insulting. I'm sure other people will support me when I say that fansubs aren't just downloaded for the sake of free stuff. Also, I wasn't arguing that anime was educational, but rather that the anime fansub process can be educational. I think that's a difficult argument to dispute.
 

Voddas

Symphogear
Gawyn said:
The major flaw in your argument is that somebody at some level is getting revenue for the anime being watched on TV be it through advertising or state-funded TV. There is absolutely no gain to anybody involved in that broadcast over fansubs downloaded via the internet other than the single solitary watch that produced the initial raw. If, directly or indirectly (through advertising or similar), the distributor/TV company was paid then it would be acceptable but as that is not the case there is no justification for it.
I can understand that, however with anime series/films that have as of yet (or never) got any plan of being available to the western world, would it be the same thing? If an anime is available on DVD I wouldn't download a sub when I could own the series with choice of Dub. The temptation wouldn't be there, but I can't see how being able to make available a series of which would never be released is so bad. I mean if they did eventually get released then great (don't download the subs).

Surely they must get a lot of feedback from the west and even demands for the release of series due to subbers making it possible for people to view the series. I'm suer theres thousands of searches on the iternet for western release dates for series that have been viewed and enjoyed. I know I've looked.

Sorry for bad engrish in places, I'm at work and keep stopping to do things half way threw a sentance. Busy Day T_T

::dashes off::
 

Gawyn

Magical Girl
Voddas said:
Gawyn said:
The major flaw in your argument is that somebody at some level is getting revenue for the anime being watched on TV be it through advertising or state-funded TV. There is absolutely no gain to anybody involved in that broadcast over fansubs downloaded via the internet other than the single solitary watch that produced the initial raw. If, directly or indirectly (through advertising or similar), the distributor/TV company was paid then it would be acceptable but as that is not the case there is no justification for it.
I can understand that, however with anime series/films that have as of yet (or never) got any plan of being available to the western world, would it be the same thing? If an anime is available on DVD I wouldn't download a sub when I could own the series with choice of Dub. The temptation wouldn't be there, but I can't see how being able to make available a series of which would never be released is so bad. I mean if they did eventually get released then great (don't download the subs).

Surely they must get a lot of feedback from the west and even demands for the release of series due to subbers making it possible for people to view the series. I'm suer theres thousands of searches on the iternet for western release dates for series that have been viewed and enjoyed. I know I've looked.

Sorry for bad engrish in places, I'm at work and keep stopping to do things half way threw a sentance. Busy Day T_T

::dashes off::
In an ideal world what you say is perfectly right however when Japanese producers see that series X appears to be exceptionally popular in the west the licencing costs are liable to increase by a large degree. This makes licencing the series much more risky since many more copies need to be sold before the company will break even on the deal. Added to that is the increased number of people who have already seen the series and will be (generally speaking) largely be unwilling to pay for it. Of course there are the responsible ones who will do as you are suggesting, downloading if it isn't licenced and buying when it does become available but these from what I can tell are in a minority, which is my reasoning for my final statement to adamcube's initial post. I am not saying that fansubs are absolutely evil incarnate - I watch some myself but for those I have bought and am buying the Japanese, US and UK DVDs where they are available - but that there is a serious problem with a large section of people believing that they are entitled to watch this stuff without paying.
 
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