Any positives anywhere?

H

harkins

Adventurer
It might just be me but I’m pretty sure that anime fans are changing. Even in the couple of years I’ve been frequenting this forum I’ve definitely noticed a general change in mood.

There seems to me to be a prevailing sense that everything is bad at the moment. Everything is; too expensive, takes to long to be released, has too much fan service, is clichéd, is all bishoujo or moe, short of extras, repetitive, badly dubbed and so on.

I’ve also detected an increasingly gnarly tone in a lot of posts. A couple of years back someone might have said they’d watched a series and thought it was good and then some would agree and some would disagree. But the disagreement might just be, “I thought it was terrible because.....â€
 
Every medium is the same. I go to an electronic music forum where everyone bitches about the lack of originality and how everything was better 5, 10, 20 years ago. I go to a gaming forum where everyone bitches about the lack of originality and how things were better 5, 10, 20 years ago. Anime is no different.

Part of being a fan is expressing dissatisfaction at how things aren't as good as they used to be, regardless of whether it's justified or not. My personal take is that there is definitely something happening to the anime industry, a shift towards producing low-risk pretty girl shows that pander to a small but loyal subset of fans. A backlash is inevitable.

With regards pricing and such, anime fans have always complained about that. But it does seem as though the loudness of those complaints is directly proportional to how easily obtainable fansubs are. I suppose there is an element of "I want it now" involved. Bah, kids. Back in the day we were lucky to have half a dozen VHS releases per month!

...

I feel old.
 
Being a relatively new fan (just over a year or so), I've become used to the anime of today and all the "crap" (as some people would call it) that gets released. I've not seen a great deal of the older anime and have nothing to compare the newer stuff of today with.

I don't believe, however, that because an anime has fanservice or moe aspects, it instantly makes it a bad and lacking anime.
 
Too much of something good is a bad thing. I once loved RPGs, yet now I can't be bothered to play them since I've seen it all before over the course of my years as a gamer. Whether it's true or false, new releases don't compare to the memories in my head.

Anime becoming more normal also has a hand in what you describe. You feel special watching anime when you're doing something unusual, when you're watching something that isn't easily watched... Anime is both easy to obtain and watch these days.

Quality issues and lack of extras with DVD releases will become more and more of an issue as time goes on and technology advances. No-one wants to pay silly amounts for bare bones releases these days, they want extras, special packaging... They always want more for their money. With 26 episode anime still being released over 6-7 volumes in this day and age, with little to no extras, the complaints are only going to become louder.
 
Following on from a comment above.. Yes, every industry is the same, but the thing is that there are always new people finding out about anime, and they seem to just not be posting here - except a few. The negative comments come from people who've been fans for years and know all the ins and outs of how things work, and have gotten so involved in anime that they make their own cemented opinions about those things.
People will always say things were 'better' 'back in the day' or whatever, but things change, and some people don't like to move on - and quite rightly so if they want to. That's how society works isn't it?

The other thing is that this is a forum, and people here can and will say whatever they want to say, because most of the time it isn't going to do anything negative to them in their 'real' life.

I don't think it's a change in attitudes to be honest. Just anime has got more mainstream, and this forum is more mainstream. Taking a look at posts from a few years back, there were a dedicated lot of members who were kind of at the start of the whole anime in the UK thing. A lot of those people have since moved on, and this lot of people are different, but not all different. No doubt that will change again in the next few years (although I don't see myself dissapearing anytime soon). Even back then though, there were people who had negative views about certain things... I think you can remember who and what.

I could go into great depth but I'm not up for the challenge of that at the moment. :p

I'm sure there's some socieological argument about this.
 
The thing which i find puzzling, is the lack of "adult" Anime. Not XXX but for the 18+. There are some, but they seem to be burried in shonen and moe.

There are shining lights though, like Le Chevalier D'Eon for example which though still not quite celebral enough to grab me on multiple levels is definately worth watching.

The only way to get good anime "i believe" is to buy the good stuff and ignore the rubbish. This way the companies which give the stuff we want get the money and make more... cause and effect.
 
Thing about this forum 2 years ago was nothing really happend.
If you watched king of the hill before it's like that the 4 guys stood there going "yup"yup"yup"uhhu"
Then one person might go "it wasn't that good"
 
For what it's worth I love my hobby - I just don't get on well with most other fans :s I dislike moe/bishoujo series just like the fans of it might hate tentacle shows, there's still decent stuff out there though so it's not the end of the world.

I'm a long time Hamasaki Ayumi fan too and I swear every time she brings out a CD, half her followers proclaim that she's lost touch with her roots blah blah and gone downhill. I think there was a rocky patch a while back but her recent stuff is the same quality her music was when I first encountered her CDs. So although there will still be naysayers, there's no reason a season or two of moe saturation will be the end of what we love about anime :)

In a year or two tops it will be a new fad anyway. Fashions are always changing and that's what keeps it interesting. In between cranking out terrible shows, most of which will never come out with subtitled legit releases anyway to register on my radar, there are some brilliant pieces of entertainment being made. And there are dozens upon dozens of older shows out there I still have to collect!

Anyway, new series of Slayers soon. If ever I need something to thrust me back into squealing fandom, that sort of announcement should do it.

R
 
Also I do think that the devaluing of anime has an impact. When you slave over savings up and getting something, wait for it to be delivered or hit the store shelves, rip off the plastic and watch it, you give it a chance, you learn to look past funky art styles or goofy premise. Now though, people just go to [whatever video/torrent/streaming site is hip with the kids these days] and click a link to watch a show instantly, often with terrible translations they think are good (not always, but often). If you don't like it, you form an opinion fast and the next series is just a hop away. Slow burners and more abstract shows aren't going to immediately grab people like the latest hyperactive school comedy series without serious word of mouth. People want and expect their anime to be free and quick. The days of fansites to individual characters/shows made between volumes by excited fans seem to be dwindling. People find their favourite series changing daily instead of monthly.

It's all become a lot more hectic somehow. I sometimes feel some "fans" watch the newest stuff as fast as they can to race others rather than because they actually even want to see it. I've been a fan for ages and still have dozens of old shows I would love to see but haven't yet, so there's no panic to me if a few seasons are littered with generic shows. How about some of the panickers slow down and try some older stuff? They might find some gems there too.

R
 
harkins said:
I’ve also detected an increasingly gnarly tone in a lot of posts. A couple of years back someone might have said they’d watched a series and thought it was good and then some would agree and some would disagree. But the disagreement might just be, “I thought it was terrible because.....â€
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It seems that more and more there is getting this "more otaku than thou attitude" where people must watch the lateset series within days of airing in Japan. Also there is this sort of competition where when saying they don't like something people really have to stick the knife in (and at times insult the fans of said), not just say it is not their cup of tea. I think there is a little air of insecurity in those airing their oinions, so they over do it and try to persuade everyone their opinion is fact not just an opinion. If I don't particually like a genere I just don't watch it, I don't stand up and say nobody should watch it as we all find different things enjoyable, if everybody liked the same things we would not have the diversity we have.

Here is my negative being around for a while I have noticed though the animation has impoved over the years, storylines are just becoming over used and rehashed with less standing out.
 
Maybe it's just because Internet has been at the forefront of everyones lives for the past five or so years. Things have changed, peoples attitudes have changed. Kids are growing up with the ideal that they can get anything they want (media wise) for free, whenever they want, through P2P or whatever. The 'ignorant masses' opinions aren't being put into place by their parents either, because there's nothing they can do. That's life, it seems.

So ultimately, we're turning into a "I want it now, and I want it for free" society. I don't see that changing in the near future either.

I like David Cameron's 'family' ideal.

/offtopic slightly
 
Dracos said:
It seems that more and more there is getting this "more otaku than thou attitude" where people must watch the lateset series within days of airing in Japan. Also there is this sort of competition where when saying they don't like something people really have to stick the knife in (and at times insult the fans of said), not just say it is not their cup of tea. I think there is a little air of insecurity in those airing their oinions, so they over do it and try to persuade everyone their opinion is fact not just an opinion. If I don't particually like a genere I just don't watch it, I don't stand up and say nobody should watch it as we all find different things enjoyable, if everybody liked the same things we would not have the diversity we have.
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While giving an opinion as fact is a bit much, people not having any reasoning behind their opinions is much worse. They come with artificial answers and buzzwords like "good characters", "interesting story" or "it's just my opinion". People like this are what make me feel that my opinions are fact. These people can't think for themselves, and this gets me irritated, and I'm now cynical. I'd love to be an optimist, I really would.
 
Looking at the 'life cycle' of this community, I do think there's been a change, or rather, an evolution in the attitude (not that there's anything wrong with that) of anime fans. I started working on Anime UK News in 2003 and the forums launched at some point in 2004. In terms of the anime community itself, the flow of information (and opinion) was so much more limited back then. Genres or labels like 'moe' weren't a part of our cultural lexicon and there wasn't this massive network of anime blogs.

Don't get me wrong, fansubs were still popular, but the community was more fragmented back then, so the general vibe was a lot more casual and, perhaps, innocent. Imagine that, back then, things like Cowboy Bebop weren't out in the UK, there were very few Ghibli films out and after the way CNX died for Cartoon Network, the idea of anime on UK TV seemed impossible. Basically, over those few years, an entire generation (including me) of anime fans came through and had very little to watch. I guess we all came together to share recommendations, both in terms of what was locally released and available online, and just to share our fandom. These days, we're saturated with anime, on the shelves, on our TV screens and online, it's everywhere. So, going back to harkins' original point, I think that, yes, anime fans are changing. If just due to this flood of anime, our tastes have become more sophisticated, more specific. That's online fandom, really, a lot of anime fans have been watching this stuff online for nearly a decade now. Anime is such a diverse medium, this was bound to happen.

We're always changing. I think a lot of people are looking at things like Kanon and Clannad, noting their popularity but thinking "this isn't what I signed up for". That's how it is for me at the moment too, when I joined up, everyone loved Naruto. Seriously, it was so popular. Generally, it's still as good as it was back then, but now, it's like the leper of the family.
 
Hokum said:
The thing which i find puzzling, is the lack of "adult" Anime. Not XXX but for the 18+. There are some, but they seem to be burried in shonen and moe.

There are shining lights though, like Le Chevalier D'Eon for example which though still not quite celebral enough to grab me on multiple levels is definately worth watching.

The only way to get good anime "i believe" is to buy the good stuff and ignore the rubbish. This way the companies which give the stuff we want get the money and make more... cause and effect.
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The fact is that there is and always has been very little "adult" anime ever made. Most anime, regardless of what people in the west like to believe, most anime is made for children up to their mid-to-late teens. Of what is made very little of it is picked up since it is not (seen as) quite the seller that the teen type stuff that most anime companies release. When you consider the western stereotypes, it becomes very easy to justify this sentiment. It is a much more difficult proposition to convince an adult to accept that an animated story could have the depth of a live-action drama than it is to entice younger people with the promise of something exciting and colourful.
 
I'd say anime has and (mostly) always will be aimed at 15+ (on the whole), but not for the younger groups. Anime, regardless of its given certificate, is much more complex than regular cartoons, and children just won't understand a lot of it. You can't really say there isn't already a good amount of anime out there that older fans can't enjoy.

Saying all that, it would still be nice to have an adult specific anime made one of these days (not in a pornographic sense).
 
ryuzaki said:
I'd say anime has and (mostly) always will be aimed at 15+ (on the whole), but not for the younger groups. Anime, regardless of its given certificate, is much more complex than regular cartoons, and children just won't understand a lot of it. You can't really say there isn't already a good amount of anime out there that older fans can't enjoy.

Saying all that, it would still be nice to have an adult specific anime made one of these days (not in a pornographic sense).
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That's the case in the Western world. In Japan it's different. They don't have to portray anime in the sense that it's not for kids... to try and prove to the 'mainstream' that it's worth a look. The most popular anime and consistently the most viewed shows is stuff like "Chibi Maruko-chan", "Sazae-san", and of course "Doraemon". Also, the likes of shounen jump shows are aimed at like 10-late teens.

There are tons of "adult specific" shows out there, i.e. Ghost in the Shell.. Akira.. Berserk, etc.

I don't really know if you're talking about anime as in - what's made, or what's released in the Western world.
 
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